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Author Topic: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?  (Read 2698 times)

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george garside

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2017, 02:51:46 PM »

the 12 stradella bass on a double ray makes absolutely no noticeable difference to its weight compared with the 8 melodeon bass setup.

I have thought about fitting  a 12 stradella double ray bass end to a DG Erica as it would be a straight fit. Just haven't come across a cheap unwanted bass end!

the 12 stradella  would work well ( could be thirdless) on a DG  giving bass note and major chord FCGDAE same in both bellwos direction  so no need to cross row just to get slightly better bass.  The stradella fingering is also same in every key just start in the right place  .  so for example in key of G  you use CGD   bass  which in diagonal rows are
in that order. for D its GDA again in the same pecking order of diagonal rows. same for key A = dae bass.
Larger stradella works just the same but with more vertical rows of between 3 and 6 the latter being counter bss, bass, major, minor , 7th and dim chords  all in the diagonal row of the bass note and stacked in diagonal rows to provide same fingering/

george
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2017, 02:54:28 PM »

ah well George, fair enough, I bow to your knowledge here.
Q

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Thrupenny Bit

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2017, 03:05:13 PM »

Yes, a BC or Csharp/D with the mini-stradella bass seems a pretty good solution for English players who like  lot of bass. I also suspect that if you want to play in the full range of major and minor scales and modes that feature in Irish music you would be unable to do so on a DG, though some of you may be able to contradict me on this possibly? (The tunes that lend themselves to DG are not always the most interesting tunes, I think). I'm not too sure myself, coming from the Irish tradition, whether bass is that important. Would you want a bass rhythm on a fiddle? or on a tin whistle? I don't think so. Until recently we've had to buy whatever the Italians or the Germans wanted to make for us..

What I love about the fourth-apart tuned instruments, D/G, C/F, G/C, etc., is that the RH side is ideally suited to playing both melody and harmony. I like to play both so the fact that the RH side of D/G and similar systems can play major and minor chords both on the rows and crossing the rows, easily, almost without thinking about it, is a huge plus for me.  So, on a D/G box, it is straightforward to play triads of G major, D major, Em, Am, Bm, A major, F#m, in various inversions.

Playing the RH side of the melodeon is, to me at any rate, much more than just playing 'the tune'; I can play the tune with lots of extra notes thrown in when I need to. And that's before I start using the LH side. It truly is a 'band in a box'. I don't think that can be said in quite the same way for a B/C box. Sure - you can do RH chords in C major, Dm, B major and C# minor (not exactly startlingly useful in general), plus a cross-row Em. But  where are your useful RH chords for, say G major, D major and Am? You can't do it, because the relevant notes are not all in the same bellows direction.

If you want only to play fluid melody-only driven tunes, then I can accept that a semitone-tuned box is good, but for me, I want something with a bit more overall beef on both sides, and without the added weight of a stradella bass. Apart from Ireland and Scotland where the semitone systems are generally favoured, I think it is significant that in most other countries/cultures the fourth-apart box is preferred.

I guess it is now my turn to duck and run for cover.  ;)
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Steve
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Theo

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2017, 03:20:40 PM »

Biggest problem with the 12 stradella bass is the lack of a B bass and chord. For me B bass is indispensable on a DG box, as is F.  Both are found on most melodeons with 12 basses. I agree that Stradella is more logical, but it does give you fewer bass notes and chords than a traditional 12 bass melodeon.☝️
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Theo Gibb

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george garside

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2017, 04:04:43 PM »

as someone has already said 'horses for courses' and that's why I like and play both systems

george ;)
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Stiamh

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2017, 04:10:29 PM »

« Insert the name of the system you play » is the worst possible system - except for all the others!

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2017, 04:15:31 PM »

« Insert the name of the system you play » is the worst possible system - except for all the others!
Love it!  ;D
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Steve
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Tufty

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #87 on: March 08, 2017, 04:31:45 PM »

I enjoy listening to most, if not all types of melodeon but was reminded of the following comments: "After initially giving an enormous boost to Irish instrumental music, the B/C accordion has long since passed its heyday ...Stork or butter tests have revealed that it is now virtually impossible even for experts to tell the difference between top players. standardisation has led to decadence". Not the words of a D/G playing Morris Man but from the sleeve notes of "Johnny O'Leary - Music for the Set". Johnny O'Leary himself wrote "I spent some time going up to Padraig (O'Keefe) too. Padraig was never gone too much on that crossing of the keys".
As I say I enjoy all styles of melodeon, even the Twinnies! (What's not to like about girls on roller skates playing melodeon!) So I would take issue with the view that "Tunes that lend themselves to DG are not always the most interesting tunes". By extension this must include other fourth apart boxes, so are there are no interesting tunes from the English, French, Italian etc traditions?
Like Steve I feel that the ability of these instruments to provide their own accompaniment is a great strength. Antoine Bouscatell the famous French piper certainly thought so "The dayes of my bagpipes are numbered! This character with his accordion carries with him our ruin!... The accordion is a miracle that falls from the sky. It is a revolution on the way. Did you hear? It is complete, it is hot, it is alive. And it is a whole orchestra, this instrument of the devil". To be fair he also said that the accordion was only fit for bears to dance to!
For anyone not familiar with the Twinnies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpmDAu_47OE
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richard.fleming

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #88 on: March 08, 2017, 04:43:21 PM »

I only said 'not always'. I never suggested or even implied that there are no interesting tunes in those repertoires; what I at least meant to convey was that the most interesting tunes in ITM do not always lnd themselves to DG boxes. That's all.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 04:45:28 PM by richard.fleming »
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Tufty

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Re: Keyboard layouts? How/why would you ever change systems?
« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2017, 06:40:04 PM »

So it would be just as true to say "The tunes that lend themselves to BC are not always the most interesting tunes, I think".  I agree that the DG does not seem to be the ideal instrument for ITM(although some players like Dave Mallinson do pretty well) ........ the one row 4 stop is ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HOhqKrmfvY
For me the variety (anarchy?) of systems is one of the great things about the melodeon, I may even invest in a CC# >:E
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