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Author Topic: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)  (Read 3662 times)

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Melissa Sinclair

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I'm sitting here, morning of day 6 of learning, having had 5 days to practice so far and I have a few questions. I think I might keep adding more questions to this one thread... unless people think it best to start new threads as new questions arise? (So first, thoughts on that from mods?

But here are my several questions right now.

1. I flipped ahead this morning through the P&M method book for GC box. I'm only working on exercises 7-10 currently, but I was skimming through and I"m looking at exercise 31 and 32 here. I didn't take a picture, but exercise 31 is a natural minor scale in A from A to A two octaves. Top part of the music is what I'm accustomed to seeing - the notes on a staff. Underneath that are the fingering cues and below that are the rows C and below that G - representing the rows on the box. Exercise 32 Uses that scale to do an exercise, adding in bass notes/chords with the rhythm written in below all. This is teaching cross row playing which I do want to become proficient in.



It is not obvious (with only 5 days practice) if I should keep using the staff as a guide where/what to play for notes, or if I should only be using that for knowing the rhythm and use the CG lines to actually know what notes to play. Like maybe I should be learning the buttons as 3-5 for C-G (C row) and 4-6 for C-G (G row) instead of just looking at them as C-G on the staff? So far I've been using the staff to follow notes. I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't be doing that? That I need to force myself to know that 8 on the G line is C and 6 on the C line is B? Maybe I should start the exercises over by learning the numbering, and only use the staff to know the rhythm? Advice for that?

2. Playing higher notes. It feels like I need more air, faster air to play higher notes, is this feeling true? When I do that (on both instruments I have) the bass then gets VERY loud while the high notes feel so light/weak. Any tricks to helping the balance feel better? I cannot imagine there is something, but I could be totally wrong.

3. Watching videos - even of the same players on different tunes, I see some pieces the player is essentially slapping the bass keys in faster pieces and gently pressing in slower pieces? Is it just for that player it's harder to control the hand to make a smoother/calmer movement (so you cannot hear the clack of keys) or is it a style of play?

4. And maybe I can find in a search, but are there books of GC simple tunes to practice/learn from that you would reccommend? (with accompanying CD would be ideal as I'm an auditory/visual learner).

I had another question too, but it escaped me.
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playandteach

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 03:46:48 PM »

Just on your 1st point: knowing the staff notation but not where the notes are on the buttons doesn't really make sense as you will be able to read it but not play it. I'd say there is no need to be fluent in pitch notation but familiar enough to work it out quickly. It seems that you already have some notation skill so I'd focus on knowing where important notes are on the right hand. For example the A minor notes on the pull and the E minor notes on the push (etc eventually).
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 04:32:07 PM »

Just on your 1st point: knowing the staff notation but not where the notes are on the buttons doesn't really make sense as you will be able to read it but not play it. I'd say there is no need to be fluent in pitch notation but familiar enough to work it out quickly. It seems that you already have some notation skill so I'd focus on knowing where important notes are on the right hand. For example the A minor notes on the pull and the E minor notes on the push (etc eventually).

Right... What I have been doing, and that could be totally wrong, is that when I see middle C, right how I know where that is on the row - top row, third button, Push. But I'm thinking of Middle C up to next C as:

CDEFGABC versus 33445566. I guess what I was trying to ask... should I stop thinking of them as lettered "notes" per se, and start thinking of them as numbered notes? Or should I really be learning both of them equally well. I have been completely ignoring the numbered notes.
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TomBom

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 05:11:21 PM »

I thought there are soundfiles to download for the M&P tutor books?
If so: maybe a good idea to stop thinking and try to learn from the recording.

Regarding the basses: maybe it's just the player (you) who notices any kind of imbalance. Might be different for a listener. Alternatively you could try to play the left hand more staccato. However, I think it's not easy (for a beginner) to play left hand staccato and right hand legato.
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playandteach

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 05:44:43 PM »

I'm not now advising you but explaining a couple of options that a learner like me might consider. There are lots of ways for lots of people.
I wouldn't ever think of button numbers. I MIGHT consider numbers for degrees of the scale (e.g. for the G row notes G, B, D would be 1, 3, 5.) That would help me for learning On The Row locations and is a transferable piece of info on any row. This may help with learning note location for bellows direction.
However, the way I do approach it is to know that the note E, A, and C are roughly in the middle but that the E is followed by a different note then the A and C come together. I also know that the B feels like it is between the A and C but on the inside row.
I grew up in London and accepted that I knew the East End well, and I knew Marylebone well. Then I knew 2 ways to get between them. Gradually I found other routes. I think pockets of keyboard geography is also a common starting point. Eventually they join up.
Note familiarity is never a redundant skill.
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tom f

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 06:23:31 PM »

Hi Melissa,
The Milleret and Pignol series are excellent tutors but as you note are bit short of basic tunes.  I use M&P but also have Yann Dour's 'Accordeon Diatonique' series which have less exercises and more tunes.  At your stage I would recommend his 'Livre du Debutant' which has over 40 G/C tunes  ranging the very simple to the slightly more difficult.  The books come with a CD of the tunes to help you learn (or did when I got them) and are very user friendly.  These should be available from Yann Dour's website at www.editions-caruhel.com.  More expense I know but I think you'll find them worth the outlay.  Best wishes.
Tom
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 07:20:04 PM »

I thought there are soundfiles to download for the M&P tutor books?
If so: maybe a good idea to stop thinking and try to learn from the recording.

They do, but it's exercises (mostly) and I want to supplement the exercises with some simple tunes made for the box. And you are making an assumption of how people learn music. Not everyone can learn easily by hearing it and then playing it. I "can" learn that was, but I would learn faster by hearing it and then seeing it written out as notes on a page (for the box) to get it from my head to my fingers faster/more efficiently. I've played music this way basically always, so it comes much easier for me. I don't know why I would want to struggle with just trying to pluck it from head without visual guidance. EVENTUALLY then, if I wanted to memorize it, I could so that I wouldn't need the sheet of paper.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2017, 07:21:50 PM »

I'm not now advising you but explaining a couple of options that a learner like me might consider. There are lots of ways for lots of people.
I wouldn't ever think of button numbers. I MIGHT consider numbers for degrees of the scale (e.g. for the G row notes G, B, D would be 1, 3, 5.) That would help me for learning On The Row locations and is a transferable piece of info on any row. This may help with learning note location for bellows direction.
However, the way I do approach it is to know that the note E, A, and C are roughly in the middle but that the E is followed by a different note then the A and C come together. I also know that the B feels like it is between the A and C but on the inside row.
I grew up in London and accepted that I knew the East End well, and I knew Marylebone well. Then I knew 2 ways to get between them. Gradually I found other routes. I think pockets of keyboard geography is also a common starting point. Eventually they join up.
Note familiarity is never a redundant skill.

This makes sense - whatever way gets you there is all the same in the end. And yes... I'm beginning to figure out where things are. I still need to look and count - for C row... starting G row in a day or two.
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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2017, 08:00:46 PM »

http://www.diato.org/tablat.htm

Pick one out, find it on youtube or listen to ones with an mp3.

Learning tab and using the music together is good, each brings something to the experience.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2017, 08:04:27 PM »

Hi Melissa,
The Milleret and Pignol series are excellent tutors but as you note are bit short of basic tunes.  I use M&P but also have Yann Dour's 'Accordeon Diatonique' series which have less exercises and more tunes.  At your stage I would recommend his 'Livre du Debutant' which has over 40 G/C tunes  ranging the very simple to the slightly more difficult.  The books come with a CD of the tunes to help you learn (or did when I got them) and are very user friendly.  These should be available from Yann Dour's website at www.editions-caruhel.com.  More expense I know but I think you'll find them worth the outlay.  Best wishes.
Tom

hmmm... that site is mostly in french and I don't speak French and I don't see that book, but I found it elsewhere, I think. This? http://www.atelierdupiano.fr/m%C3%A9thodes/294-pouillard-methode-de-piano-debutant.html
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2017, 08:07:15 PM »

http://www.diato.org/tablat.htm

Pick one out, find it on youtube or listen to ones with an mp3.

Learning tab and using the music together is good, each brings something to the experience.

Oh great! Thank you!
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TomBom

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2017, 08:32:18 PM »

hmmm... that site is mostly in french and I don't speak French and I don't see that book, but I found it elsewhere, I think. This? http://www.atelierdupiano.fr/m%C3%A9thodes/294-pouillard-methode-de-piano-debutant.html
Yes, it is. On the other site: http://www.editions-caruhel.com/methodes

Quote
And you are making an assumption of how people learn music. Not everyone can learn easily by hearing it and then playing it. I "can" learn that was, but I would learn faster by hearing it and then seeing it written out as notes on a page (for the box) to get it from my head to my fingers faster/more efficiently. I've played music this way basically always, so it comes much easier for me. I don't know why I would want to struggle with just trying to pluck it from head without visual guidance.
Ah, I see. I thought you prefer learning by ear. Combining notation and listening surely is quite efficient.
(BTW I used to played from sheet music exclusively for decades. The melodeon helped me to rely more on my ears).
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2017, 08:46:06 PM »

Ah, I see. I thought you prefer learning by ear. Combining notation and listening surely is quite efficient.
(BTW I used to played from sheet music exclusively for decades. The melodeon helped me to rely more on my ears).

Well we will see if that happens or not.  ;D First I need to build a foundation. I have decided for now that the little break I take at work when I'm in the office, I pick up the liliput (CF) and try to play that by ear... kind of giving different skills a practice at different times. At home, for longer periods, I'll work on the methods book and written out music.
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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2017, 09:15:19 PM »

Hi Melissa,
The Milleret and Pignol series are excellent tutors but as you note are bit short of basic tunes.  I use M&P but also have Yann Dour's 'Accordeon Diatonique' series which have less exercises and more tunes.  At your stage I would recommend his 'Livre du Debutant' which has over 40 G/C tunes  ranging the very simple to the slightly more difficult.  The books come with a CD of the tunes to help you learn (or did when I got them) and are very user friendly.  These should be available from Yann Dour's website at www.editions-caruhel.com.  More expense I know but I think you'll find them worth the outlay.  Best wishes.
Tom

That's the one.

hmmm... that site is mostly in french and I don't speak French and I don't see that book, but I found it elsewhere, I think. This? http://www.atelierdupiano.fr/m%C3%A9thodes/294-pouillard-methode-de-piano-debutant.html
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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2017, 11:09:08 PM »

For starting off, the melodeon really excels as an instrument suited to simply laying one's fingers upon the buttons, squeezing in/out whilst working them, and having a go at making a tune.  Unlike other instruments (ie, winds and strings requiring significant technical proficiency to even begin to render a beautiful sound), button accordians do a significant portion of that bit itself given the free reed emits sonority with just a bit of air 'cross it..  Try it and see - trust your intuition...the box may not only open itself to you, but through it perhaps even a whole realm of finding music within yourself at the mere thought or feel of it.  :) :|glug
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playandteach

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2017, 11:37:37 PM »

That is deep. Tantric Box.
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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2017, 12:06:17 AM »

For starting off, the melodeon really excels as an instrument suited to simply laying one's fingers upon the buttons, squeezing in/out whilst working them, and having a go at making a tune.  Unlike other instruments (ie, winds and strings requiring significant technical proficiency to even begin to render a beautiful sound), button accordians do a significant portion of that bit itself given the free reed emits sonority with just a bit of air 'cross it..  Try it and see - trust your intuition...the box may not only open itself to you, but through it perhaps even a whole realm of finding music within yourself at the mere thought or feel of it.  :) :|glug

Beautifully expressed. Well said - there is a lot of wisdom and truth here.

Sometimes there is a tendency to overthink all this business of button numbers, bellows direction, staff notation, etc. and what's needed is just to sit down and let the blimmin' box play what's in your head.
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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 12:11:19 AM »

For starting off, the melodeon really excels as an instrument suited to simply laying one's fingers upon the buttons, squeezing in/out whilst working them, and having a go at making a tune.  Unlike other instruments (ie, winds and strings requiring significant technical proficiency to even begin to render a beautiful sound), button accordians do a significant portion of that bit itself given the free reed emits sonority with just a bit of air 'cross it..  Try it and see - trust your intuition...the box may not only open itself to you, but through it perhaps even a whole realm of finding music within yourself at the mere thought or feel of it.  :) :|glug

Absolutely! When I got my first box I spent my time creating tunes by pushing & pulling & exploring the buttons. This was before attempting to play any "real" tunes. The melodeon is uniquely suited to that approach IMO.
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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 12:44:49 AM »

Melissa: Regarding your difficulty with French, some browsers, eg Google's Chrome, are equipped to do a rough and not too inaccurate translation for you. I'm generally OK with French, but it will make sense of some of the more difficult languages for me.

Chris B.
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My other melodeon's a fiddle, but one of my Hohners has six strings! I also play a very red Hawkins Bazaar in C and a generic Klingenthaler spoon bass in F.!! My other pets (played) are gobirons - Hohner Marine Band in C, Hohner Tremolo in D and a Chinese Thingy Tremolo in G.

Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Several questions (might keep adding more questions to same thread)
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2017, 02:29:57 AM »

For starting off, the melodeon really excels as an instrument suited to simply laying one's fingers upon the buttons, squeezing in/out whilst working them, and having a go at making a tune.  Unlike other instruments (ie, winds and strings requiring significant technical proficiency to even begin to render a beautiful sound), button accordians do a significant portion of that bit itself given the free reed emits sonority with just a bit of air 'cross it..  Try it and see - trust your intuition...the box may not only open itself to you, but through it perhaps even a whole realm of finding music within yourself at the mere thought or feel of it.  :) :|glug

I do that too - I do a mix of different things, but when I really want to "know" what notes I'm playing too. I am doing some of the method book. Some of trying to play a tune I know. I made up a variation I know (but wrote it down so I want forget it.) but also yes, just pulling notes.

But I have to laugh about overthinking it... That is my nature - a planner, an organizer - with a creativity streak... married to an economist and actuary... we're a bit cerebral (especially my spouse).  ;D

But, yes, I think my background and the beating in from childhood onward that it's hard work and don't expect instant rewards!  So thank you... I'll add just piddling around on the thing too...  :|||:
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