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Author Topic: "good to see their fingers coming right off between strikes" (Mr Garside.)  (Read 2435 times)

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Lester

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The more I think about it, the more I get the impression that George, Ollie, and any other teacher implied are being misquoted and misinterpreted here.  Teaching this as a technique is perfectly valid but I think people have a dangerous habit of hearing "you can do this" as "you must never do anything else" in a formal teaching context.  It doesn't take many Chinese whispers before it becomes "accepted practice"!

Wot he said  (:)
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Thrupenny Bit

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I can confirm Ollie made the point on several occasions recently that 'there is no right or wrong way to play the melodeon....' and certainly hasn't been laying down the law!
Going back to Martin's video, there are a lot of techniques demonstrated in that tune and all valid and give nuances, light and dark to the tune.
Q

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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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I totally agree that fingers off is but one of a whole range of playing techniques to be  able to draw on and use where the individual thinks it gives the best effect.

As it is less intuitive and indeed more difficult for a beginner to get the hang of compered with 'fingers on buttons' that seems to come much more naturally I  put emphasis on it as a technique quite early in the learning process  on the basis that ones its mastered in provides a very useful addition to ones armoury to be used  or not used  according to the wishes of the individual player

on a personal basis I probably use it in about 50% of my playing and find it  particularly helpful in dance music  but not necessarily all the way through each and every tune - veriety is the spice of life and also the spice of many a good tune

george

george
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GPS

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Personally, I'm completely mystified how you all know when (or if!) you're lifting your fingers. Me, I just get on and play the damn thing, and I neither know nor care whether I'm lifting or not as long as it sounds OK........

Sorry if that sounds a bit offhand, but I'm just not an analytical player!

Whatever floats your boat
Graham
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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(Aside) @Andrew Wigglesworth. Andrew - you mention Billy Harrison's Father's Polka. I am a bit of a Billy Harrison fan, especially as he lived not far away from me. Do you have a source of his tunes please?

Thanks,

Chris B.

I've been having a think where I picked up the tune from. I did have a cassette tape of Billy Harrison playing with Jim Eldon, so it's possible (likely even) that I remembered it from that; but that tape went missing15 years or so ago.

I had a look for the recording online and came up with this:

https://gumroad.com/l/mVfd#

It appears to be the recording I used to have. I got quite excited and tried to buy it, but the payment system just gets stuck and nothing happens. Maybe you'll have more luck.

There's a load of MT (Musical Traditions) recordings that Rod Stradling's put on that site.

https://gumroad.com/rodstrad#


Edited to PS:

Just been looking through my music collection, and I surprised to find that Brass Monkey played it on "Flame of Fire". Also Katies Quartet played it under the name "Billy Harrison's Polka".
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 07:08:47 PM by Andrew Wigglesworth »
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Maggie

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"His 'pet hate', as I understand it, was leaving the button pushed when moving between push and pull on consecutive notes"  (how do I get the blue background for a quote from another post?)

Here is my tuppence worth:

Learning French traditional music, my teacher insists that I don't lift my finger between push and pull on the same button.  I am learning to use bellows technique to sharpen or blend notes as appropriate to the melody.  Also learning to lift my fingers the least amount possibe as this should help with playing faster tunes.  It seems to be working for me.   :|||:

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Andy

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how do I get the blue background for a quote from another post?

Start by using the 'Quote' option on the posting you wish to quote rather than using reply 'Reply' option
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Chris Ryall

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Learning French traditional music, my teacher insists that I don't lift my finger between push and pull on the same button.  I am learning to use bellows technique to sharpen or blend notes as appropriate to the melody.  Also learning to lift my fingers the least amount possibe as this should help with playing faster tunes.  It seems to be working for me.   :|||:

Both techniques work, they sound different (otherwise why the fuss?) - so surely "best technique" is to  focus on one, but be able to do the other when it feels right for the tune?
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BJG

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When depressing the same key twice on a push/pull to create detached notes, would you typically use the same finger, or different fingers...?
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Anahata

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It depends on which finger you started with and where the tune is going afterwards. Sometimes it's a useful opportunity to change finger because you need to get your hand in the right position for the next few notes; I'd say when it isn't necessary for that reason, there's no point in using a different finger.
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boxer

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That's interesting because I often deliberately change finger for consecutive strikes on the same key - for the same note, with the bellows direction not changing, or for the reverse note, where the bellows direction changes between strikes.

It's a habit I've developed in order to build crispness into the otherwise muddy execution of some intervals caused, in part, by irregular breathing and keying patterns of fiddle key scales and arpeggios on the B/C (not to mention the limitations of my own technique). 

At moderate speeds it's not really necessary, but, for example when playing reels at "dancing" speed, I find that the technique makes it easier to emphasise the stress on an individual eighth note without affecting the subsequent one, and so blurring the phrasing.
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george garside

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that lovely reel Caddam Wood features  no less than 11  same note quadruplets  when played once through (A &Bparts)  that means on the bassis of 3 times through there are 33 of yon quadruple things which are the very heart and sole of the tune and which bugger it up well and truly if not played properly.

I have found the best way , for me, is to use just one finger  for each quadruplet , bringing the elbow out from your side and keeping the fingers in a straight line with the arm  , keeping the arm and chosen finger absolutely rigid and using the elbow to provide the up and down off the button movement.  It works well presumably because the elbow muscle/joint is much more powerful than the finger joints.

And no it is not my 'invention'  I saw Jimmy Shand do it  with his usual absolute precision when I was in my teens  and its actualy easier to do than to try to describe

george
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Anahata

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I DO change fingers (sometimes) on rapid repetitions of the same note, but that's different. BJG was talking about between push and pull, not repetitions of the same note.

I haven't tried Shand's trick, though...
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boxer

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well, as I said in my post (perhaps not clearly) that I change fingers between push and pull, as well as for the same note.
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Anahata

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well, as I said in my post (perhaps not clearly) that I change fingers between push and pull, as well as for the same note.
Indeed you did: I was replying to George's post about Caddam Wood and should have made that clear.
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RPr

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Same debate the fiddle players have.

I have found that people investigate the issue, then do what works for them.
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george garside

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that is fine as long as the period of 'investigation'' includes giving each of the different methods a  decent trial as something new to the individual can often seem impossible, extremely difficult, not worth the effort, I can't be arsed with it or whatever!  when they may well be worth getting the hang of if only to put a few more arrows in ones quiver


george
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Ebor_fiddler

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Just a quick note. @Andrew Wrigglesworth. The tape Jim recorded with Billy is now available as a CD "Billy Harrison and Jim Eldon, Yorkshire fiddle tunes and songs". Published by Musical Traditions; I think I got mine from Veteran Records. Pikey, as an under-age toddler, played with Billy, on his very first Hohner!

Thanks - now back to the show!

Chris B.
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