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Author Topic: Is this tune being played on a BC box?  (Read 705 times)

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Melissa Sinclair

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Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« on: March 01, 2017, 12:54:39 AM »

It's Celtic (inspired) I think. BC? The chorus director I work with wants me to play this for our yearly solstice celebration in December - we usually just have piano. I told her if there was ANY WAY I can play this tune at all, I will need like a year to learn it! :-) And even then I told her that it was doubtful!

So, I finally got the name of the piece, and I've contacted the band, but wondering if anyone knew? https://youtu.be/O6LmoCC5leI  Here's the band. They are actually local to DC/Maryland, so I could get a chance to see them if I wish. https://www.oceanorchestra.com/
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 01:02:21 AM by Melissa Sinclair »
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deltasalmon

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 01:07:59 AM »

I can't tell by listening to it without seeing a video of the playing but she is playing a D/G box in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzFjEWvdnE
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 01:13:54 AM »

Song of Solstice: that's very much in the English 'village band' style of playing. Not very Celtic at all. Parts of it are slightly reminiscent of the English morris tune 'Old Tom of Oxford'.

The major key sections are in the key of G and the minor key sections in Em. Together with the typical LH basses and chords it is eminently playable on a D/G melodeon, with the major key part played mainly based around the inside row and the minor key on the outside row.
On a C/F melodeon using the same fingering it would translate to be in F major and D minor.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 01:23:41 AM »

Song of Solstice: that's very much in the English 'village band' style of playing. Not very Celtic at all. Parts of it are slightly reminiscent of the English morris tune 'Old Tom of Oxford'.

The major key sections are in the key of G and the minor key sections in Em. Together with the typical LH basses and chords it is eminently playable on a D/G melodeon, with the major key part played mainly based around the inside row and the minor key on the outside row.
On a C/F melodeon using the same fingering it would translate to be in F major and D minor.

They are fusion.. but they say on their site that they are a Celtic fusion, but all of that doesn't mean much to me as my exposure to any folk music is limited.
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Ray

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 03:09:20 AM »

Sounds like a D/G player to me.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 03:20:01 AM »

Sounds like a D/G player to me.

I am so new to this, but I thought the same... and then thought, "what do I know?"
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May

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 08:36:04 AM »

So, I finally got the name of the piece, and I've contacted the band, but wondering if anyone knew? https://youtu.be/O6LmoCC5leI  Here's the band. They are actually local to DC/Maryland, so I could get a chance to see them if I wish. https://www.oceanorchestra.com/

Melissa you can buy the music from their web site
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 08:52:55 AM »

Song of Solstice: that's very much in the English 'village band' style of playing. Not very Celtic at all. Parts of it are slightly reminiscent of the English morris tune 'Old Tom of Oxford'.

The major key sections are in the key of G and the minor key sections in Em. Together with the typical LH basses and chords it is eminently playable on a D/G melodeon, with the major key part played mainly based around the inside row and the minor key on the outside row.
On a C/F melodeon using the same fingering it would translate to be in F major and D minor.

They are fusion.. but they say on their site that they are a Celtic fusion, but all of that doesn't mean much to me as my exposure to any folk music is limited.

So much traditional music, especially in the English style, is suited to the melodeon especially the 4th-apart tuned box (D/G, C/F, etc) where the LH basses and chords easily go with the RH melody. Morris tunes are a really good way of getting into this sort of style. A quick google search reveals the morris side 'Foggy Bottom' based in Washington DC. Why don't you contact them and ask to go along to one of their practices to meet their musicians? I'm sure they would be only too pleased to welcome you and give you an insight into the sort of music which the melodeon is good at and (on one level) not too difficult to play.

Here's a link to their website with more details:
http://www.fbmm.org/index.html

I actually met Foggy Bottom in 1989 when I was at the Marlboro Ale in Vermont. As I recall they were a great crowd. Very friendly.

Another handy route into English-style melodeon playing is via Lester's tremendous video compendium of English and other tunes. A great learning resource!  (:)
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Theo

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 09:15:43 AM »

They are fusion.. but they say on their site that they are a Celtic fusion, but all of that doesn't mean much to me as my exposure to any folk music is limited.

I wish people would't use "celtic" as a description of their music.   It doesn't really mean anything.   Who the Celts were is a long running topic of discussion with no clear answers and they were long gone before any of the western European musical traditions of the last few hundred years.

I agree with the consensus of the previous posts that this is very much an English style of performance.  The box is playing lots of big chords on the right hand as well as the left which is another pointer to it not being played on a BC.
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 09:19:28 AM »

Could you not contact the band and ask?  Most traditional-ish musos are friendly and helpful.

Graham
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 01:52:11 PM »

Melissa you can buy the music from their web site

Yes, and it's not expensive, but they say in their description that most of the music they sell is voice, piano, guitar, some show instrumental. So I don't know if that music will have what I need.



I wish people would't use "celtic" as a description of their music.   It doesn't really mean anything.   Who the Celts were is a long running topic of discussion with no clear answers and they were long gone before any of the western European musical traditions of the last few hundred years.

I agree with the consensus of the previous posts that this is very much an English style of performance.  The box is playing lots of big chords on the right hand as well as the left which is another pointer to it not being played on a BC.

I don't know why Americans do that and they ALWAYS do. Most descriptors I see as common are Irish and Celtic. Not anything else for anywhere in UK and Ireland.

Found this on Wikipedia about Celtic Fusion. Explains a bit for me.

Celtic fusion[edit]
Main article: Celtic fusion
The oldest musical tradition which fits under the label of Celtic fusion originated in the rural American south in the early colonial period and incorporated Scottish, Scots-Irish, Irish, Welsh, English, and African influences. Variously referred to as roots music, American folk music, or old-time music, this tradition has exerted a strong influence on all forms of American music, including country, blues, and rock and roll.[27] In addition to its lasting effects on other genres, it marked the first modern large-scale mixing of musical traditions from multiple ethnic and religious communities within the Celtic diaspora.

In the 1960s several bands put forward modern adaptations of Celtic music pulling influences from several of the Celtic nations at once to create a modern pan-celtic sound. A few of those include bagadoù (Breton pipe bands), Fairport Convention, Pentangle, Steeleye Span and Horslips.

In the 1970s Clannad made their mark initially in the folk and traditional scene, and then subsequently went on to bridge the gap between traditional Celtic and pop music in the 1980s and 1990s, incorporating elements from new-age, smooth jazz, and folk rock. Traces of Clannad's legacy can be heard in the music of many artists, including Enya, Donna Taggart, Altan, Capercaillie, The Corrs, Loreena McKennitt, Anúna, Riverdance and U2. The solo music of Clannad's lead singer, Moya Brennan (often referred to as the First Lady of Celtic Music) has further enhanced this influence.

Later, beginning in 1982 with The Pogues' invention of Celtic folk-punk and Stockton's Wing blend of Irish traditional and Pop, Rock and Reggae, there has been a movement to incorporate Celtic influences into other genres of music. Bands like Flogging Molly, Black 47, Dropkick Murphys, The Young Dubliners, The Tossers introduced a hybrid of Celtic rock, punk, reggae, hardcore and other elements in the 1990s that has become popular with Irish-American youth.

Today there are Celtic-influenced subgenres of virtually every type of popular music including electronica, rock, metal, punk, hip hop, reggae, new-age, Latin, Andean and pop. Collectively these modern interpretations of Celtic music are sometimes referred to as Celtic fusion.

Could you not contact the band and ask?  Most traditional-ish musos are friendly and helpful.

I did last night. Let's see if they respond.

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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 04:01:03 PM »

Just got a response from Jennifer Cutting:

Hi, Melissa... On Song of Solstice, I am playing a D/G diatonic button accordion, and using the "G" row.  The sheet music does not contain the "push" and "pull" designations for the box, only the melody, lyrics, and chord symbols.  Does that answer your question?  All best, Jennifer

So... this means on my GC box it would play an octave lower? No?  GC and DG... - octave different?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 04:08:16 PM by Melissa Sinclair »
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deltasalmon

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 04:48:24 PM »

It means that if she's playing it on her G row, you would play it on your C row and it would come out a fifth lower (or do they say a 4th lower?)

...any way it will come out 6 semitones lower.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 04:59:23 PM »

It means that if she's playing it on her G row, you would play it on your C row and it would come out a fifth lower (or do they say a 4th lower?)

...any way it will come out 6 semitones lower.

I would be playing this with a choral group (if I ever learni it enough to do it this year - but hopefully would the next year) with either guitar or flute or piano. I can't change keys I don't think.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 05:40:28 PM by Melissa Sinclair »
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 05:33:06 PM »

It means that if she's playing it on her G row, you would play it on your C row and it would come out a fifth lower (or do they say a 4th lower?)

...any way it will come out 6 semitones lower.

The C row of a G/C box is a fifth lower than the G of a D/G box (C->D->E->F->G), and it is seven not six semitones lower.

Perhaps confusingly, many posts on this forum refer to so-called 'quint' boxes but the two rows of such boxes are a fourth, not a fifth, apart - the G->A->B->C interval is a fourth (five semitones) as is D->E->F->G.
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 05:39:02 PM »

7. Yes. I must have miscounted one of those pesky accidentals...
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 08:04:35 PM »


...

I would be playing this with a choral group (if I ever learni it enough to do it this year - but hopefully would the next year) with either guitar or flute or piano. I can't change keys I don't think.
I think it should be possible to play the song on your G row as notated. You are used to play from notation: it will sound exactly as notated. No problem.
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 12:17:43 PM »

Perhaps confusingly, many posts on this forum refer to so-called 'quint' boxes but the two rows of such boxes are a fourth, not a fifth, apart - the G->A->B->C interval is a fourth (five semitones) as is D->E->F->G.

But following the circle of fifths the next one up from G is D, a fifth up from D is A so aren't fourth or fifth both correct depending on which way you look at it?
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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 12:30:56 PM »

Just got a response from Jennifer Cutting:

Hi, Melissa... On Song of Solstice, I am playing a D/G diatonic button accordion, and using the "G" row.  The sheet music does not contain the "push" and "pull" designations for the box, only the melody, lyrics, and chord symbols.  Does that answer your question?  All best, Jennifer

So... this means on my GC box it would play an octave lower? No?  GC and DG... - octave different?

I think generally the G on a GC box is an octave lower than the G row on a DG box (which i think is generally the highest pitched melodeon - one reason why English DG players tend to stick to the low octave whilst our continental cousins usually play in the upper octave).  So you should be able to match what Jennifer is playing although you would probably struggle with the chords in the Eminor part although with the piano and flute you may get away without playing some of the left hand chords and could play some right hand chords instead

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Re: Is this tune being played on a BC box?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 03:58:51 PM »

Perhaps confusingly, many posts on this forum refer to so-called 'quint' boxes but the two rows of such boxes are a fourth, not a fifth, apart - the G->A->B->C interval is a fourth (five semitones) as is D->E->F->G.

But following the circle of fifths the next one up from G is D, a fifth up from D is A so aren't fourth or fifth both correct depending on which way you look at it?

Yeah, from the outside row to the inside row you're going up a fourth in pitch. From the inside row to the outside row you're going down a fifth in pitch. But since we say D/G box (outside first, then inside row) the relationship from outside to inside is a fourth so they would say it's a fourth.

To avoid all this confusion we should just play semi-tone boxes which are a semitone apart regardless of direction  :|glug :||:
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