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Author Topic: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?  (Read 538 times)

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Joan Kureczka

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Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« on: March 03, 2017, 03:19:06 PM »

Well, I'm finding it a bit of challenge. After playing mostly on a very compact Oakwood-Baffetti collaboration instrument, I've been starting on the much larger Loffet Pro. I thought it would be no problem, as it's smaller than a Mory so I at least don't feel like I'm trying to play on a wardrobe. But I'm finding the increased reaches on the basses a challenge for my small hands even as I get used to the slightly different spacing on the treble buttons. I'm going to give it time and experience, but any advice is welcome.  I didn't have this problem going from the compact instrument to my C/G Sander, but the Loffett is just a bit larger....
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 09:28:14 AM »

Consider a full 3 rows.  the 2+6 needs 3 sets of blocks anyway and the extra weight and cost penalty is small. Basically you get a second octave of helper buttons at less than half price compared to the inititial six ;)

Will you use them? I think so.  Even considering a Mory implies you are sending those fingers up into the second octave.  I had a Mory on the 90's but after buying my 1st three row in 2004 I'd never go back. 

You should also 'strongly consider' a 6 bass.  It is the bass extend that really opens the 3 row up. 

Don't go for too many voices as you can easily overtax the small bellows. Some people like MM and tremello but if you are going to play across 2 octaves bandoneon LM is a very good idea. It evens the tone quality across the instument - there is no 'squeaky end' any more 

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Rob Phillips

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 12:48:32 PM »

Last year I had to deal with the same problem, moving from playing compact 2-row 8-bass instruments to a Loffet Pro 2.6 row. I don't have unusually small hands but following an accident several years ago I have much reduced mobility in the ring finger of my left hand. When I'm playing an 8-bass instrument I get by with just using the index and middle fingers. (Before you ask why I don't use my little finger as well, believe me I've tried). Using just two fingers on an 8-bass is poor technique, I know. It involves some inelegant jumping around but it in practice I haven't found it to be that much of an issue. Crucially, I can cover the air button with my thumb whilst reaching all eight buttons with my index and middle fingers.

However, the Loffet Pro is a 12-bass. I simply couldn't reach all 12 buttons with my two useful fingers whilst covering the air button. In particular, the G/D and C/C pairs were out of reach. After a month or so of frustration I thought of re-selling the instrument (which I'd bought second-hand) but was reluctant to do this because of its gorgeous tone. I therefore experimented with extending the air button. I tried various types of plastic and wood, all of which were too pliable or which broke, before in a lightbulb moment I remembered the Meccano in the loft. I screwed this to the air button as an extension. (It can be unscrewed if the bottom of the box ever needs to be removed). The result is just what I wanted. Yes, I'm now inelegant using two fingers to hop about over 12 basses rather than 8, but it does work. I can reach them all whilst covering the air button. And yes, underneath the Meccano there are two small holes in the air button. These will need to be filled if I ever sell the instrument (something that is highly unlikely at present. It plays beautifully).

I think it's a simply coincidence that Joan and I have both had a similar issue with a Loffet Pro. The same would apply to other brands of 12-bass I tried. Joan also mentioned a slight difficulty in the difference in button spacing on the treble side. Another coincidence is that like Joan I play an Oakwood-Baffetti Binci as a compact 8-bass. I've had no difficulty on the treble side of my Loffet Pro. Any difference in button spacing seems to me to be minor.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 12:53:00 PM by Rob Phillips »
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Lester

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 02:20:53 PM »

"Using just two fingers on an 8-bass is poor technique, I know."

No it's not,it id just one way of playing the bases
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JD

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2017, 03:38:02 PM »

I have owned both a Loffet GeB 2.5 and a Loffet Pro 2.6. The Pro has a shorter reach from the air button to the furthest basses (ie the G/D and C/C basses on a G/D instrument). It's not a big difference but it makes the Pro much more playable, at least for me.

On my Pro I had the "extra" basses configured as A/G and F/F#m. The G and F#m are very useful when playing in D so I am not jumping from the "G" basses to the "extras". Hence I can continue as a two-finger bass player. Thanks to Lester for defending me!

If you are a two-finger bass player you might try using your second and third fingers instead of the first and second. I managed to do this for a while after losing a fingernail (yes, it was painful). It might give you that extra inch or so of reach

I regularly play a Pokerwork and a Club II and honestly don't feel the extra stretch on the Loffet. I definitely don't have goalkeepers hands!

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Joan Kureczka

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2017, 07:43:16 PM »

Rob -- appreciate your comments. Sounds like we've had a similar responseto the shorter than average air button. My husband has temporarily added a wooden extension which so far has worked well. You solution sounds interesting. In either case, we'll make something permanent soon as it does seem to help.  Otherwise I suspect it will just be a lot of practice to get used to the wider reach required. I don't have abnormally small hands, just the small hands of a shorter person. The treble isn't going to be an issue as I'm rapidly getting used to the spacing there. Just need to struggle a bit I guess on the basses.
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Julian S

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2017, 08:34:18 PM »

I have found that having the additional basses on the bottom of the row, rather than the top, on my Saltarelle Pastourelle 2 really helps in reducing the stretches. The G/D pair is in the middle, D/A top nearest the air button - the buttons I use most, and really my home buttons I suppose. When I bought a Dony, I had problems navigating the bass layout so I eventually changed it, so that it is similar to the Salty. Though saying that, Salty has a very eccentric layout which I must post for comment - it seems perfectly ok to me but I'm sure others will beg to differ...
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oggiesnr

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »

I had the same issue with reaching the air button on a Loffet 2.6 (G/C) when using the bottom chords.

My coping stategy was two fold.  Careful fingering to keep the big bellows with air in them most of the time and I converted the pull Bb in the top pair of chords to a pull C so that when playing on the G row I didn't have to keep cross rowing and heading down for the bottom push C.

The result is that when playing in C major and  Am I have a much smoother style than otherwise but I can still play bouncy push/pull on the G row.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2017, 10:18:57 AM »

I went from a small Tommy to a full sized Hascy.
OK, so not a 12 bass or having a helper row, but it was a considerable jump in size, both in terms of weight, size of body and the keyboard was now normal sized as opposed to the small size keyboard on the Tommy.
It took me a while but I now use the Hascy as weapon of choice and it doesn't feel large any more. Now I switch to the small Tommy and within a tune am back using that perfectly well.
I find my fingers gradually got used to the larger full sized keyboard, stretches for the chin end accidentals gradually became easier, as did the weight.
It does take time to adjust to larger boxes.....
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

squeezy

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2017, 10:41:25 AM »

"Using just two fingers on an 8-bass is poor technique, I know."

No it's not,it id just one way of playing the bases

You only need the number of fingers playing that is necessary to get the job done!  If you encounter a problem where you're consistently inaccurate or can't reach the next button then it is time to re-think fingering if you want to progress.

I tend to get away with 3 fingers on the left hand  with the little finger only becoming involved if it absolutely has to!  But I can confirm that using the ring and middle finger as your primary fingers on the G/D basses rather than the middle and index fingers really helps with the problems of stretching for the air button.

It's worth bearing in mind that nobody even considers playing the right hand with only 2 fingers!
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Squeezy

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JD

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2017, 11:12:01 AM »

The topic of switching between boxes has sparked my interest. I don't have a DB/Binci box but do have a DB Black Pearl III so thought a few measurements might be interesting. First, the horizontal distance from the G bass note to the air button. On the two Hohner boxes this is to the top of the button (to pull the button down), on the others to a point where I can easily push the button in.

Pokerwork - 95mm
Club II - 95mm
BP III - 90mm
Pro 2.6 - 105mm

On the assumption that the two-voice DB boxes have the same measurement as the three-voice that's an extra 15mm for the Pro.

Right-hand button pitch for the same four boxes.

Pokerwork - 20mm
Club II - 18.7mm
BP III - 19.5mm
Pro 2.6 - 18.8mm

So, by a whisker, the biggest difference is between the two Hohners. Who would have thought it?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Going from very compact 2 row to 2.6 -- thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2017, 10:35:13 AM »

It's worth bearing in mind that nobody even considers playing the right hand with only 2 fingers!

Lester?  ::)
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