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Author Topic: going dutch  (Read 2139 times)

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jb

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going dutch
« on: July 19, 2009, 01:07:18 PM »

Intellectually I like the idea of the dutch reversal. But I've an uneasy feeling about it, which I have been trying to rationalise. It might be something to do with the thought that to alter the fundamental push/pull scale pattern of the main keyboard is to tinker with the essence of the melodeon, i.e. the thing which makes the box a melodeon, in a way which altering any of the accidentals or basses is not. Or perhaps it reflects a related but more pragmatic consideration that once you get used to playing with the dutch reversal it becomes (I suppose) more difficult to pick up and play a standard-layout melodeon, and conversely more difficult for anyone else to play yours, which has some social implications too.

In my head I don't find these ideas very compelling. But I can't find any other way to rationalise my gut feeling. So does anyone else have a similar unease about the dutch reversal and/or any views on the rationalisation of mine?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 04:28:04 PM by jb »
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LJC

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2009, 04:05:47 PM »

My 2.5 row Saltarelle, whilst not having the exact reversal actually on the G row, has the middle button of the half row as the reversed E push D pull which is essentially what this tuning is. Almost all the interesting tunes I play have some point where the E on the push or D on the pull is really useful to keep the smoothness of one direction playing. I couldn't get another 2.5 or 3 row with out the reversal since it is just so useful.

Moving on from this I've tried flipping the reeds in various 2 row boxes I have to get the same effect but the whole thing just seems to get messy especially for playing Morris with the grunt of a push pull style on the G row.  It's not something I'm going to do with any of my two rows.

With the 3 row boxes (http://info.melodeon.net/files/site/ADG31corona.gif) you can see there are the reversals there already and flipping any of the reeds will just cause more of the same note in the same direction (not to say that no one has done it, I'm no expert!)
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LJC

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2009, 04:42:14 PM »

I think if you're really fussed about notes both ways then a CBA just seems so much more of a sensible idea. If you like the diatonic sounds then its just a case of working with the limitations (and enjoying them). Like you say, it really starts to change it away from a melodeon if you tinker too much. Who needs a low C natural anyway?  :-\
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ganderbox

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2009, 05:40:07 PM »

Who needs a low C natural anyway?  :-\

Me!!  I had one of the low notes on my Dony changed to a low C natural and it's really useful.

Almost all the interesting tunes I play have some point where the E on the push or D on the pull is really useful to keep the smoothness of one direction playing. I couldn't get another 2.5 or 3 row with out the reversal since it is just so useful.



Agreed.
I too was wondering whether it would be a useful thing to do the dutch reversal, but in my case on my small G/C box (which is a G/A reversal rather than a D/E, of course). When you are trying to play smoothly in Am across the rows, it's often a bit of a hiccup when you need to go down to the G. On balance, though, I reckon it would mess up playing on the inside row too much.
 
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Pauline from Cornwall

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LJC

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2009, 05:57:21 PM »

I don't think my humor worked there - I could really do with a low C, its one of the more irritating limitations of the standard layout.
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ganderbox

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2009, 06:15:03 PM »

I could really do with a low C, its one of the more irritating limitations of the standard layout.

Absolutely!!!
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Pauline from Cornwall

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Martin J

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 11:43:50 PM »

Hi Guy

I reversed a C/F box and played it for more than a year.  It was brilliant on the C row but less than intuitive of the F row.  It was a part of my affair with Organetto's.  I believe if I had began on this system it would have had many advantages but thirty years on the standard English layout proved a bridge too far and I have now returned it to the original tuning.  I don't see any conflick with the ideology of melodeons, quite the reverse as in a lot of tunes it simplifies a simple system even further.

I also bought a three row unisonic box from Udo Schneeberg (see other threads) which I eventually had to get Rees to 'normalise' for me.  So your last fear is the real problem, that of switching systems.  Intellectually some systems are better but when the chips are down your fingers go where they have always gone.

Having said all of that, I would still recommend getting something like an Erica or Polkawork and trying for yourself.  It was great fun.

Martin
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Chris Ryall

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2009, 06:59:18 AM »

Martin puts it very well. I reversed the D/E plates on my C#/D/G Oakwood (which btw has a built in and very useful low C natural).

I kept at it for over 6 months. It drove me mad. You have to relearn all your G tunes and even then your finger will stray to the wrong button producing the most awful dysharmonies imaginable.

   I believe that 'Dutch' is a better and more logical system and
   would recommend a newbie to 'switch over' at an early stage.

But personally I gave up the unequal struggle, re-flipped, filed my duplicated (on 3rd row) C pull reeds to D's instread. I kept the low C for chording, thus breaking the box's symmetry. Having an E when pushing would be nice as it is the minor 7th in D scale, but my main objective was to get chromatic on the pull. 

In essence after 20 years, it's much easier to learn note positions in 3rd row, or accidental positions, than to unlearn those main two rows. D3R
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ganderbox

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Re: going dutch
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 10:19:51 AM »


In essence after 20 years, it's much easier to learn note positions in 3rd row, or accidental positions, than to unlearn those main two rows. D3R

Yes, oddly enough it doesn't seem to be too difficult to play boxes with different accidentals. Somehow, once you know where they are, the "map" of the accidentals comes into your head when you pick up a particular box.
On the other hand, trying to relearn things like the scale of G on the inside row is so fundamental that it's a bit like trying to relearn the alphabet.

I wonder if those amongst us who are able to play both semitone boxes (like B/Cs) and quint boxes, without blowing a fuse in their brains, would get on better with changing to the dutch system?
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Pauline from Cornwall

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