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Author Topic: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic  (Read 20275 times)

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pgroff

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"Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« on: July 19, 2009, 10:04:03 PM »

Ebay item 220454578764, a diatonic:

http://cgi.ebay.com/A-VINTAGE-LUDWIG-PIANO-ACCORDION-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220454578764QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL?hash=item33541dea4c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A4|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A200

I have had a couple of these and still have one in storage, not as attractive as the one for sale here.

The Ludwig is very cheaply made and mainly of historical/organological interest. I have seen a pre-war Paolo Soprani diatonic with similar melody keyboard that was much nicer, and a photo of a 1940s Baldoni version also.

Somewhat related (although with smaller, less piano-like keys) are the Polish style instruments including some sold by Hohner.

Anyone know who made Joe Flanagan's pseudo-piano-keyboard accordion?

Paul Groff

« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 10:07:58 PM by pgroff »
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HallelujahAl

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 07:39:23 AM »

HI - very interesting item. Not seen one of these before. I shall be following this auction with interest. Shame you didn't offer via the buy and sell pages here first - as you'd probably get what you want for it and avoid paypal and ebay fees to boot. If you are interested in selling the other one that you have please let us know.
AL
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 09:19:02 AM »

Al, I don't think the above post is from the seller; just an interested enthusiast like yourself (ourselves?)    :-X :-[ :-X

MC
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Tuner/repairer, now retired, but still playing! Happy to offer advice on repairs etc., and might be persuaded to undertake the odd emergency job for local and longtime  customers. Selling a few melodeons from my collection currently....

rees

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 12:00:42 PM »

Can't help on the Flanagan model. There's no mention of a maker in their sleeve notes.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
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HallelujahAl

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 01:37:56 PM »

Quote
Al, I don't think the above post is from the seller; just an interested enthusiast like yourself (ourselves?)     

MC

Ah! Senior moment I think!
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Québécois

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 03:17:53 PM »

The web site Musicaviva has pictures of Ludwig melodeons, my father used to own one, a 3-stop 1-row in G. As I remember it was of reasonable quality.
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triskel

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 11:51:27 PM »

Ebay item 220454578764, a diatonic:

http://cgi.ebay.com/A-VINTAGE-LUDWIG-PIANO-ACCORDION-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220454578764QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL?hash=item33541dea4c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A4|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A200

I have had a couple of these and still have one in storage, not as attractive as the one for sale here.

Hi Paul,

I've had a few of them, and seen plenty more over the years, at antique markets, auctions etc. In Britain they're invariably in the C/C# "English chromatic" system, and the example that I now have formerly belonged to the old West Suffolk melodeon player Cyril Stannard, who played any system as long as it had a C row - well actually, that was all he ever played on them...

The Gebr. Ludwig factory was at Zwota, beside Klingenthal (there's a museum there now - which I visited a few years ago) and they seem to have made this model in the '20s and '30s, decades when the piano accordion was becoming more & more fashionable and some button accordions (both diatonics and CBAs) were built to resemble it.

There's an illustration of a similar one (probably also a Ludwig, but of a more "Italian Model") in How to play the Chromatic Accordeon by Pietro Piandosi (1932), in the First Step series:


Quote
The Ludwig is very cheaply made and mainly of historical/organological interest.

Yes, I don't think they ever made any expensive models, and the reeds are always on long plates in them.

Quote
I have seen a pre-war Paolo Soprani diatonic with similar melody keyboard that was much nicer ...

Was that this G/C one?

Or maybe this one?


But the keys on these are more like the spade-shaped ones on the old-style, stepped-keyboard Italian organetti, with the bar-shaped inside-row ones stained black - like this "Special Accordion with white and black keys" from a 1920's catalogue:


Quote
... and a photo of a 1940's Baldoni version also.

I have a Baldoni, Bartoli & Co. catalogue, from around 1930, that illustrates two models:




The upper version is more ambiguous, but the lower one is described as "False Piano" and "made to resemble a piano accordion," having longer keys and three of the "black" notes in white, so (from a distance) it looks more like the real thing. But both are described as "full tone-simple" (rather than "semitone"), so probably in fourth-apart tuning.

Quote
Somewhat related (although with smaller, less piano-like keys) are the Polish style instruments including some sold by Hohner.

The style is illustrated in a 1931 Hohner catalogue, described as the Polish or Russian model;


... though diatonic accordions with piano-style ebony keys on the inside row go right back to 1830's France;


... and this 1840s example, with a piano-like keyboard is believed to have been made in Vienna;


I guess button accordions have been haunted by the spectre of the piano keyboard from very early on in their history, going back even before there was such a thing as a piano accordion...

Quote
Anyone know who made Joe Flanagan's pseudo-piano-keyboard accordion?


I don't know who made it, but I strongly suspect it was one of the Italian-American firms.

It would remind me somewhat of one I have by the Guerrini Company in San Francisco (the pioneers of piano accordion making in America, in 1909), stamped on the reedblocks "P. PETROMILLI & C. PIATANESI   MAY 25 1921   2269" (don't you wish all makers did that!  :o), only that one (though really a 2-row diatonic) has an amazing 3-row "piano" keyboard - the inner and outer rows acting on the same levers, so it'd play C/F/C (in high pitch), though if I restored it I'd be tempted to make it C#/D/C# (at A=440):


Whilst an instrument with a similar-looking treble keyboard, but Stradella bass, appears in an early 1900's catalogue from the Tyrolean maker Fidel Socin - only the alignment of the keys is different and it's a true 3-row. The description says that the white keys are for the naturals, and the black ones are for semitones, so I'd suspect it's in the continental G/C/B tuning (what the French would call a "système mixte").

triskel

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 01:50:26 AM »

Al, I don't think the above post is from the seller; just an interested enthusiast like yourself (ourselves?)    :-X :-[ :-X

MC

Some of us will have encountered Paul previously, on Concertina.net. This is his member profile, from The Session:

Quote from: The Session >> Members >> Paul Groff
Paul Groff
I live in Miami FL and work as a research biologist. I play concertina, guitar, piano and a few more instruments. I moved here from the Boston MA area where I played a tune or two with all the great musicians there. Used to run a small music shop and teaching studio (that was honored by a composition by Brendan Tonra). Here in Miami I still have a couple of concertina students (thanks to the Florida Folklife Commission) and am getting to know the tenor banjo, first fretted instrument I ever picked up long ago.

pgroff

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 06:22:35 AM »

triskel,

Thanks for the wonderful photo-essay!

I thought the members of this board (many seemingly in Great Britain) might have an interest in that ebay item, which probably went for a fair price as a decoration and conversation piece. My own one was fun for that purpose in the shop and (as I mentioned) neither as pretty nor in as good condition as the one just sold.

I think the Ludwig pseudo-piano melodeons I have seen have all been tuned with the melody rows in fourths, maybe all C/F. My sample size is small, but it's possible this was typical for exports to the USA, unlike the semitone-tuned examples you mention.

The prewar Paolo I know with a pseudo-piano keyboard is not identical externally to the ones you picture. It's a large celluloid-covered one. I will have to contact the owner but for some reason I seem to remember it being in C and D major! Of course it might have been altered at some point since made.

Thanks also for introducing me. Don't know why I posted such an extensive profile on the other site, but should mention here that I do love to play melodeon, and even more I enjoy hearing other better players. BTW I originally found this site because I was told that pictures of my own accordions had been showing up here. That's no problem, but funny.

Best to all especially you and Theo, who I know from email.

Paul Groff
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 06:27:42 AM by pgroff »
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pgroff

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Re: "Vintage Ludwig Piano Accordion" but not off-topic
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 04:04:26 AM »


I think the Ludwig pseudo-piano melodeons I have seen have all been tuned with the melody rows in fourths, maybe all C/F. My sample size is small, but it's possible this was typical for exports to the USA, unlike the semitone-tuned examples you mention.


Now here's a similar but differently--branded box marked for Bb/Eb:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NICOLO-SALANTI-ARMONICA-PIANO-ACCORDIAN-/200809939698

PG
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