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Author Topic: How to arrange bass from an existing song?  (Read 1791 times)

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Boronkee

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How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« on: April 25, 2017, 01:31:21 PM »

Hi there, long time lurking, first time poster here.

I start playing the melodeon mid November and after learning 3-4 tunes with my teacher i'm now trying to "arrange" (hope that's the right verb) an existing song to play it with my melodeon.

I have the music sheets of this song transcribed for a piano, so it already have the bass(left hand) and the melody(right hand) parts.
The thing is, i can play the melody just fine for now, the problems starts when i try to figure out the bass notes to play.
I know which notes i have to play, but i don't have all the bass notes that i need on the melodeon.

The song is in the key of C and there are no alterations in the music sheets, so i guess it should be easy to play it on a melodeon.

So, is there a particular way to understand which bass notes to play instead of the ones that are played on the piano version?

(i have a basic knowing of music theory, like how major scales are made, how chords are formed, ecc...)
(i know i can ask my teacher about it, but i'll not see him for another 2 weeks, and i'm just eager to know it)

EDIT: my instrument is a 2 row in C/F with accidentals, the layout its this one http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/keyboards/2%20Row%20-%20C_F%20-%20with%20accidentals.jpg
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 03:07:19 PM by Boronkee »
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 01:39:24 PM »

I'll let others more experienced help you with song accompaniment, but it would help them to know what instrument you are playing.
i.e. is your instrument 1, 2, 2.5 or 3 row, and in what key(s) it's in.
Good luck ...... oh and welcome!
cheers
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

playandteach

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 03:43:21 PM »

Partly, I'm guessing that you worked out the melody without knowing whether you had to push or pull for the right chord - which is why I find it hard to learn the melody separately, then add bass - it makes more sense to me as a cross rower to consider the chords from the start.
If you could share the printed music with one of us, we might be able to offer substitution chords, for example if you are playing in D minor (which should work on your instrument) and you haven't got an E bass note which would be chord 2, then you can sometimes get away with chord 4 - and use your G bass note.
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nigelr

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 03:55:24 PM »

I'm no expert, but echoing playandteach, I would work on the basis that the notes you have as bass notes on the piano transcription will give you a pretty decent clue as to what chord/bass to use on the melodeon.  For those that you haven't got, then they are most likely to be passing notes (to get you to a chord that you do have) or are a chord tone of a chord that you already have.  The diatonic chord progression in C is:

I    C major   C-E-G
ii    D minor   D-F-A
iii       E minor    E-G-B
IV      F major    F-A-C
V       G major    G-B-D
vi      A minor    A-C-E
vii     B dim      B-D-F

So if your music has an E in the bass, then any of the above chords with an E in them could work (likewise for suggestions of other bass notes to use, so try a C, G or B) - but it's down to you to have a go and see what it sounds like.  A bit of trial and error and you should be able figure out what fits especially if you already know what the tune sounds like from the piano piece.  Most tunes can be harmonised with just the I, VI and V chords.  Others here will know more, but this is how I would approach it.  N
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george garside

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 03:56:50 PM »

as well as the number of rows and the keys thereof (as thrupenny bit has asked) there is also the question of whether you are playing 'on the row' or are 'cross rowing' i.e.using notes from more than one of the rows to play a tune.  How many bass you have is also relevent

If you are playing 'on the row' with an 8 bass 2 row box then musical theory is not required .just play the melody slowly and experiment  with the bass to get the nearest possible harmony which may not always be perfect!

if its a DG box the bottom 4 bass go with the G row and the top with the D row.

george
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Boronkee

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 06:14:41 PM »

thank you all for the replies!!

sure i can share the tune, here a video showing the part on the piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxKAxqyaEhE

and here the music sheet

http://sheet.host/sheet/CNJI1H

(that's just the first page, to see it all you have to download it)

i'll try to do as you all said and try and find a substitute for these bass notes, thanks!
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playandteach

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 08:53:12 PM »

Do you need to play it in the right key? Because that looks like it would lie fine on a GC melodeon, so if I can think in CF, you should be starting on a Gm chord (i.e. down a fifth, and then it would lie ok). By the way the sheet music is all over the place, metre wise - someone (who has done a good job with the notes, hasn't been able to score it either in triplets or in compound time (e.g. 12/8) as it should sound, so it's really hard to read past the rhythmic mis-barring. Well done for persevering.
EDIT
By the way the first basses would be G pull, A push, Bb pull, C push - so you can see that if you've learnt the tune first you may not have spotted the need to change bellows direction for the second chord.
Good luck. Looks like a decent tune, I'm tempted to write it out in the right time signature...
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 08:57:49 PM by playandteach »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 09:37:47 AM »

 I always get the chords running on the left end first.  Melodeons are very shrewdly laid out, and for most straightforward, diastolic diatonic melodies the right hand fingering will then come right automatically indeed magically! 

It helps to sing or  hum the melody as you do this. Once a chord pattern is there, I add the right end against it.  If the note is 'wrong direction' then ... you can substitute pull Dm for push F. Bb chord is in both directions. For C tunes and you will often move across to the F row in any case  -  experiment with this rather than a stick to the outer row.

Others use a right hand first approach, but if you do this you may work out some very elegant fingering only to find that the necessary chords are just not there  - ie in the wrong direction

In your choice of cords, do not be  afraid to pick one that is in 'tension' against the song.  Tension/relaxation is part of the essence of musical arrangement.  Similarly a drone Bb can come in handy - it works both directions.  Have fun  (:)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 11:50:32 AM by Chris Ryall »
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playandteach

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 10:15:16 AM »

What's your approach to systolic melodies?
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Lester

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 10:19:26 AM »

What's your approach to systolic melodies?

It's Ok as long as you have your heart in the music

nigelr

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 10:38:41 AM »

What's your approach to systolic melodies?

It's Ok as long as you have your heart in the music
Does this mean that chords that are very dissonant have hypertension?
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stevejay

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 02:43:03 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7txnrMHvc2s

Hearthstone theme, never heard it, some of the best ocarina playing I've heard above.

Ohh just delete my post it if I'm off topic, although no more than others.

I think it's essentially Irish sounding, just use whatever works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mi7NUIpLA8
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:59:01 PM by stevejay »
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Walleye

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 03:35:17 PM »

It might be easier for all to look at and comment if you download the entire tune and upload it.  Sheethost requires one to create an account to do so.  Usually that opens the door to frequent emails (spam) regarding something or another.
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Rog

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 05:05:13 PM »

Emmanuel Pariselle ran a melodeon session last year in Chippenham and showed ia technique to work out the bass for a tune. He drew a grid of boxes equal to the # of bars in the tune. Then played each bar and sort of did a bass trial and error to find one that fit or which gave a pleasing harmony with the tune, then wrote it in the box. At the end he had worked out an acceptable bass line. Not sure if this helps but I know there were a few melnetters there who witnessed this.

Chris Ryall

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Re: How to arrange bass from an existing song?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 11:55:20 AM »

What's your approach to systolic melodies?
It's Ok as long as you have your heart in the music
Does this mean that chords that are very dissonant have hypertension?

ha, bloody ha. But thanks for the correction. It wasn't a typo this time. I should know better than to try to post from a medical work station, using speech recognition software  :|bl

Greetings to all from Lund  (:) Recommend Emanuel's method above too, essentislly mine on paper. Chords first, or your "other end" might not be there. After a few tunes …they sort of come both together. But you have to build up to that. Worked for me, my most recent tune was in C nearly all on the pull.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 12:01:08 PM by Chris Ryall »
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