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Author Topic: Session Etiquette  (Read 31345 times)

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Québécois

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2009, 05:51:35 PM »

Quote
I'm worried that many diato lovers on this forum have a slightly exclusive view of what our particular instrument is all about - We need to join the music mainstream, or the box will marginalise itself - singers, violinists, whistle players, guitarists, and so on, all have their own perfectly reasonable input into music - so don't let's get too cliquey.
Good point well made Chris.
AL
Indeed. So far I have played my melodeons with a west-african band, and a group doing "americana punk" music covering well-known pop songs in an original style. Both liked the music coming out of the boxes and wondered why there are so few musicians willing to play something else than "traditional" music!
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TomB-R

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2009, 06:14:44 PM »

This thread started with a very good question:
I have fairly recently set up a session called the 'Free Music Session', at a rural pub in North End, Essex, called the Butchers Arms.  I've enjoyed folk sessions for many years (probably more so than concerts), and can't see why that basic idea can't be applied to other forms of music, such as classical, blues, rock, jazz, etc.  (Although I accept that sometimes the practicality of amplification can get in the way.)  So that's what I'm trying to do, and everyone is welcome to come along, whether folkies or not!
That's great Chris, hope it's going well, but unless you have a shared "tradition" amongst the players, aren't you going to end up either with an open mike night, where everyone takes turns to do their thing, or a cliquey "session" for those who have learned the "in" repertoire.

A "session" can be whatever the participators want it to be, but to be recognisable as a session, and not something else, isn't it necessary that someone can start to play and others are both free to join in, and have a reasonable chance of doing so?
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2009, 05:57:07 PM »

Hi TomB-R,

We may have a slightly different idea about what good sessions are - there's certainly a place for the 'everybody join in if you know it and sometimes if you don't' kind of session but my idea was to create something where you go round the room like a singaround (
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2009, 06:21:41 PM »

Hi TomB-R again,

(So that's what happens if you're in the middle of posting something during a thunderstorm!  This is what I was going to say:)

 We may have a slightly different idea about what good sessions are - there's certainly a place for the 'everybody join in if you know it and often if you don't' kind of session but my idea was to create something where you go round the room like a singaround (or 'playaround'? - perhaps not!), and each person has the opportunity to say whether they want joining in.

It's not like an Open Mike session, which I think of as performance only - the etiquette, I suppose, is that it's up to each one in turn to say what they want, and I would have thought this tends to be less cliquey, not more so.

WE've been pretty successful in terms of numbers so far, but I have to admit that we do tend to get more folkies than other types of musicians, but I try to counteract that by encouraging others to come along and present their stuff.

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Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2009, 06:29:54 PM »

The difficulty I've found is trying to stop 'self-selection' - often people feel that they don't fit in, because they sense that everybody wants to play a different style of music from their own.  So they don't come along to the session again.  If I could say to everybody who is worried that their contribution won't fit in:  'But that's the whole point of doing it!', then I would, but for some reason it's difficult for that message to get through.

I'm worried that many diato lovers on this forum have a slightly exclusive view of what our particular instrument is all about - We need to join the music mainstream, or the box will marginalise itself - singers, violinists, whistle players, guitarists, and so on, all have their own perfectly reasonable input into music - so don't let's get too cliquey.

I recently tried for a year to run a "folk" music open jam--the U.S. equivalent of "the session," I suppose.  It was a very difficult thing to accomplish satisfactorily for the reasons you provide, above.  I had some good results, and many poor results.  The social dynamics of the session profoundly influence the musical element, so musical success is therefore dependent upon the personality characteristics of the participants and their ability to accomodate each other.  Some are very good at this, and some are very, very poor.  The challenge is commensurate with the degree of open-ness; it's very much a social experiment, as well as musical, producing some very interesting mixed results.

Pertaining to your second paragraph: I am about to embark on a career of strongly advocating the button accordian.  I've been a player of strings for almost 40 years, and have come to reed boxes only in the last couple of years (through concertina).  I have become quite enamoured of them and am beginning to implement them in the bands that I play in -- a variety of folk (and rock, jazz, ethnic, etc.) musical situations.  So, I'll be applying the DBA in a wide variety of styles -- wherever I can work it in!
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forrest

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2009, 07:17:17 PM »


I'm worried that many diato lovers on this forum have a slightly exclusive view of what our particular instrument is all about - We need to join the music mainstream, or the box will marginalise itself - singers, violinists, whistle players, guitarists, and so on, all have their own perfectly reasonable input into music - so don't let's get too cliquey.

Chris Brimley

 Chris, I think you have struck the very heart of the matter here. This phenomena also extends to the music genre.....particularly evident in the US with Bluegrass..... It has become a seemingly narrow path for many players. Only certain instruments are allowed to participate, a certain order and regimentation is observed in the way tunes are played, the tendency now is to play most tunes at break-neck speed (even sometimes ballads);  performances tend to be affairs in which the audience just sits there to be dazzled by wave after wave of incredible high speed virtuosity of the performers. All voices must emulate Bill Monroe. I have heard that at some gatherings, a group might all complicitly tune 10-15 cents sharp so that strangers that wish to join the 'jam' will quickly desist.
     On a positive note, I have a Bluegrass playing friend who has started a free "slow jam" locally.....she is a singer, and fiddler. She will take in beginners or intermediates with banjo, guitar, mando fiddle, etc, and they will learn the easy tunes in a half-speed setting. This allows folks of different levels to be a part of the scene, and progress without intimidation. More experienced players participate to help teach tunes and techniques. I think the "slow jam" is a good model for learning and introducing more participants to any instrument or genre of music. It offers a missing link for those who lack the confidence to participate well when out of their comfort zone, and also allows the opportunity for more advanced players to share their abilities and experience...  :||:
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 07:20:06 PM by j.w.forrest »
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2009, 08:01:37 PM »

Quote
I have heard that at some gatherings, a group might all complicitly tune 10-15 cents sharp so that strangers that wish to join the 'jam' will quickly desist.

Every group will have a 'gatekeeper' of some sort who will sort out who's allowed access to the group and who's not - but handing the job over to tuning? Ye gods thats harsh. Mind you, I play banjo - and an out of tune banjo is not something I want to sit next to! Nor would I want to sit with people who purposely tune-up just to exclude. What sort of folk is that?
AL :-X
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Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2009, 08:10:33 PM »

And what of the folks who are undeterred by sounding a bit off?...to say nothing of the folks who aren't able to discern if they're in tune at all!?  :(
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ladydetemps

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2009, 08:24:34 PM »

to say nothing of the folks who aren't able to discern if they're in tune at all!?  :(
that would be me then? :P  :|||: ??? ::)

Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2009, 08:40:22 PM »

to say nothing of the folks who aren't able to discern if they're in tune at all!?  :(
that would be me then? :P  :|||: ??? ::)

Well, be thankful for the reed box, then -- tis why God made it, I suppose.. ;D
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Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2009, 08:44:04 PM »

bluegrass...performances tend to be affairs in which the audience just sits there to be dazzled by wave after wave of incredible high speed virtuosity of the performers. All voices must emulate Bill Monroe.

And all banjo must be "like Earl."  ::)
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2009, 09:55:53 PM »

Not George Formby?  (:)
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2009, 10:08:13 PM »

Quote
Not George Formby? 

Shame about that, I'd fit in at that kind of session!
AL
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rees

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2009, 10:14:52 PM »

A couple of years ago I was listening in at an old-timey session at a certain major UK folk festival. Debbie McClatchy sauntered in and gently tried to join in. She was shunned by all the participating musicians.

For those not familiar with Debbie's music, she has lived for most of her life in the Appalachian Mountains and is an extremely accomplished and professional singer and old-timey banjoist.

So how come these UK pseudo old-timers treated her so shabbily? To this day I am still baffled by their behaviour. It seemed to be a kind of inbred super-clique mentality that left me feeling a trifle sick.
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Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2009, 10:19:13 PM »

So how come these UK pseudo old-timers treated her so shabbily? To this day I am still baffled by their behaviour. It seemed to be a kind of inbred super-clique mentality that left me feeling a trifle sick.

Rees, were these folks "old-timers" in terms of age?, or musical genre?
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rees

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2009, 10:30:56 PM »

Musical genre. Banjos, fiddles and guitars. I have no problem with them not wanting me to honk my melodeon in their old-timey session and am happy to sit quietly supping my pint, but to treat a genuine old-timey musician in that way seemed odd.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2009, 10:35:07 PM »

Well, that is puzzling.  What "old-time" style do they esteem?  Is there such a genre in the UK or other parts that does not encompass the US old-timey tradition?   That would be hard to imagine (as the US ouvre grew out of European music, among others), but I could understand that all nations and cultures have their indigenous folk idioms..
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:38:13 PM by catty »
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rees

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2009, 10:41:25 PM »

I know, it's bizarre. They were definitely playing genuine down home American old timey as they do every year at that festival, exactly the same as Debbie plays herself.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Randal Scott

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2009, 10:43:06 PM »

hrmpf...musicians, I guess.  :P
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cw67q

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Re: Session Etiquette
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2009, 02:26:09 PM »

A completely open anything goes session is fine if that is waht the session is intended to be and everyone knows it. Can be great fun, and in areas where there are not very many willing session players is prossibly the best (only?) choice.

However, if a session has a particular format in mind, and the lattitude afforded to this format may vary considerable, then it can be a painful thing for everyone else whenever someone comes along to play something unsuitable, thus changing the session for everyone concerned.

I have had recent experience of this last situation. Our current session has been going well now for about 18 months or so following a break for a couple of years. we've got a large regular crew of folks who show up most weeks, have made a number of new friends over that time. We're a very laid back session that is basically Irish in its repertiore, although there are increasing numbers of scottish tunes being played and some regulars definately have a more scottish repertiore. We're opne to visitors and don't mind tunes from other traditions. But our openess has caused problems for us. We put up with a djembe player for about 6 months as none of us was willing to speak to the individual concerned about the problems that his playing was acusing the session. The drummer in question was a very nice older fellow that could play his drum with some capability, but it was entirely unsuited to this particular session on a number of levels:

- the playing style was "latin", the guy could play his instrument, but didn't understand the genre he was attempting to accompany e.g. setting down rythm patterns with long improvisations with no relationship to the tunes being played (not the role of accomp in irish music)
- he was so loud that players couldn't hear the person opposite them. Even with 8 or 9 melody instruments, at the bar a few feet away all that was audible was the drum.
- even if the djembe was played in a sensitive manner, 95% of the regulars were of the opinion that djembe style percussion turns trad irish into some form of fusion music that may be appropriate and enjoyable in a band situation, but was not so in a session where this change is effectively foisted on all the other participants.

We suffered in silence for 6 months, not wanting to upset a nice fellow. But after several months of gentle hints about maybe considering traking up the bodhran etc went without effect we decided we'd have to speak up. The guy took it really well, in the sense of not flying into a rage, which of course made that conversation even more painful to deliver.

Since then we've taken the attitude that djembes and such will be allowed to play along for a tune or two if they turn up, but will be told with regret that it isn't appropriate for the type of session that we want to have. We're not thrilled with saying this to people, we incline towards friendly and inclusive. But having been miserable for 6 months and lost some very good fiddlers etc who stopped coming because of the djembe, we're not willing to go down that route again.

So the bottom line of what I'm saying is: if a session is obviously opne to all instruments and sessions then take along whatever you want. If this isn't onbviously the case, then find out if it is acceptible before taking out your trombone, djembe or whatever. And try to be sensitive to the vibes being sent out. Not everyone is comfortable with telling someone something negative.

Sorry to be Mr gloom, but my recent experience has made me sensitive to these issues.

- chris
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 02:43:19 PM by cw67q »
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