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Author Topic: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?  (Read 2815 times)

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Garry Probert

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Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« on: June 28, 2017, 10:27:43 PM »

Hi guys darrens still intent on building a melodeon ,I,m just the mechanical part I have had a look at various lever systems
thought this was a simple but interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRnoXLBwMUQ

wondering if anyone had made something similar ,i've had good results in the past with silicone resin moulding and thought I could mould some levers then insert some miniature bearings

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature-Remote-Control-Model-Bearings-Various-Sizes-Packs-of-1-4-10-/322225518727?var=&hash=item4b06233887:m:mBjjeP7rXSeXVXQ_Mt4ng-Q

I,m assuming the wood lever versions have something like a nylon shim,but with all this miniaturized stuff thought it would be very smooth action, basically rod threaded at the ends and springs

Can't find any pictures on the net of a complete strip wood lever system so could be completely wrong, no workshop anymore so no press bending looking for something simple but efficient
any suggestion welcomed or if you have a picture of a wooden lever system it would be most appreciated
many thanks   
 
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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 10:30:44 PM »

sorry should've said no off set levers like club just 20mm centers 11/10 button
thanks
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Stiamh

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2017, 10:54:00 PM »

Hi guys darrens still intent on building a melodeon ,I,m just the mechanical part I have had a look at various lever systems
thought this was a simple but interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRnoXLBwMUQ

Definitely intended to be simple - designed to be easy to manufacture by people in Madagascar using local or freely available materials. You may not have gathered from the fuzzy audio, but he says that those levers and the buttons are made of horn - zebu horn to be precise!

There was a thread about this project a few years ago: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=5225.0

Stiamh

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 10:58:56 PM »

Don't know about roller bearings but Doug Briggs uses phosphor-bronze bushes:

http://www.briggsaccordions.com/description.html

pic: http://www.briggsaccordions.com/images%20inside%201.html

Theo

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 11:02:09 PM »

Looks an interesting design which could be adapted to other lever materials carbon fibre for example?
Roller bearings don't sound like a great idea in this application.  Roller bearings do well with heavy axial loads, but overkill with the light loads in a keyboard and probably more frictionthan a well set up plain bearing.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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TomBom

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 11:14:37 PM »

Some Steirisch boxes are built with glass fibre reinforced plastic levers and also ball bearings to avoid wear out.
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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 11:55:44 PM »

Sorry think i posted this in the wrong place reading all the posts

Hi guys many thanks ,some interesting stuff cant get the http://www.accordeon.org/2009/07/28/montage-d’un-kordeon/ to play but its probely my incompetence with computers... horn now that's cool and the bronze bushings lovely job

I agree the bearings are overkill ,but i fitted some in resin for a friends project and it was easier than inserting nylon shims
as they were the perfect width and i ran out of ideas lol

Love this beautiful but "cobbled ?" that sounds wrong but you know what i mean,no distraction no frippery chunky and functional completely opposite from the mass production bling stuff nowadays
time to rummage through the old boxes "horn"certainly food for thought     
 
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Winston Smith

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 12:37:26 AM »

Thinking that I could just "fit and forget", I once fitted a pair of tapered roller bearings to a rather large lever which had only light use, and that not all that often. Although they were lubricated and adjusted properly, they were knackered after only a couple of years. 

Their proper function was as motor car front hub bearings, and would, in that application, have lasted for many thousands if miles. In my experience, it seems that roller bearings aren't ideally suited to small movements with light loading. I was very disappointed!
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 08:07:17 AM »

Kay Albrecht builds his lovely boxes using a lot of model aircraft parts. I can't remember what bits, but Immanuel Pariselle took my box apart and simply said "Wow!"
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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 08:58:10 AM »

Hi guys ..Edward don't get me started on Headrace Tapered Roller bearings the idiot that fitted them on my triumph ! allowing adjustment to some people equals as tight as you can get,and grease an optional extra
Never had a problem with roller bearings probably because with a matching spacer no human adjustment lol
 
A friend thought this new and completely silly and pointless fad ,fidget spinners (get a part time job like i did )might be a good source of bearings but the weight and unnecessary overbuild make sense.
I do tend to like overbuilt and over complicate things  (:)     

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJd-WY0mm88

Drawn to miniaturization or crazy big
Really like the unconventional use of bone ,silicone moulding is great fun but acrylic resin is not really hard enough on its own

Quote
Kay Albrecht builds his lovely boxes using a lot of model aircraft parts.
thanks will research ,my neighbour has a swanky remote car they race them at snetterton might have some interesting  parts
 

 
         
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 11:54:06 AM »

Cross Referenced into the  '21st Century Box' thread  (:)
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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 01:04:15 PM »

Hi chris "21st century post" fascinating .....all the bespoke lightweight boxes seem to have long waiting lists,would be nice to have a carbon fibre modular box with matching bellows,one could then choose reed blocks button layouts etc somewhere  between the lilliput and club 2.

I was making up a case mould but the arthritis needs downtime so lost enthusiasm,really wish i,d got into melodeons as a young man .Having restored three vintage motorcycles "heaven" I still see a basket case and get that surge of excitement but have realised it would be more frustrating than pleasurable 

As my grandfather said "don't get old boy " I should have listened to him lol       
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 03:28:10 PM »

A self lubricating axle rod would save a lot of time effort and money!


PTFE rod
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TomBom

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 04:17:36 PM »

When I had to replace an axle rod with a thicker one I considered using such PTFE rod. However locally available rods were too soft compared to steel. I don't think a steel rod running in hardwood needs any lubrication.
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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 09:52:21 AM »

Hi guys have used nylon 66/delrin brilliant stuff most enjoyable to spin up in the larger diameters
A steel rod and hardwood is probably the best route

Does any kind member have a picture of a wooden treble button mechanism (from button to pallet) of something like a Castagnari mory 2 1/2 row ,they could post for me as the size of darrens monstrosity is smaller than first suggested

Reminds me of the little woman laying out clothes, creams,hair dryer,shoes,books etc on the bed preparing for a greek holiday
enough to fill container lorry,i was wondering how it would all fit in her small travel suitcase

silly me,mine was included in the equation lol

 
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Theo

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2017, 10:01:46 AM »


Does any kind member have a picture of a wooden treble button mechanism (from button to pallet) of something like a Castagnari mory 2 1/2 row ,they could post for me as the size of darrens monstrosity is smaller than first suggested


Mory has a metal action, and I think all 2 1/2 row Castagnaris (and other makes) also have metal action.  I think a wooden action 2 1/2 row would need to have a separate axle rod for the 1/2 row or some clever mechanical design to get round the limitation that wooden levers have to be straight and to keep a standard button spacing along the main rows.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Grumpy

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 11:02:26 AM »

If anyone needs synthetic materials ie plastic, nylon PTFE etc in most forms such as rod, sheet or tube try Radio Spares. They have one branch close to Gatwick Airport plus others or by post. Small amounts and fair prices, and helpfull
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Chris D, Surrey, UK
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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 12:58:35 PM »

Hi theo, think its probably easier to make new reed blocks  the bellows are from a liliput i think and the reed blocks he has are 20mm c to c ,so its a tight fit the pallets would be almost touching the sides

I,m using an aluminium sheet 2mm soundboard hes building the case around and he wants to use standard reeds.Its a bitsa from his spare parts box ,and having never seen inside  2 1/2 row other than a drop rod lilliput thought there might be some innovative mechanism i hadn't considered
 
Don't know what i was expecting but before i opened the liliput never thought it would have all the ingeniously bent drop rods.     
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Theo

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 01:11:28 PM »

... he wants to use standard reeds.

which as you know are 1.5mm wider than Liliput reeds so that adds to the spacing.  You can mill the edges of standard reeds to get Liliput width.  I am pretty sure that is what Hohner did.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Garry Probert

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Re: Roller bearings resin levers a good idea?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 01:30:26 PM »

Hi theo he has a few spare sets of reeds not lilliputs ,as you say just make /respace the new reed blocks or mill down.
 

 
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