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Author Topic: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?  (Read 7102 times)

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Gary P Chapin

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2017, 06:19:33 PM »

Is LMMH the standard setup 4 voice on any melodeon? sorry only have 2 voice  I have 5 melodeons but all 2 voice lol
LMMH is the most common voicing on a one-row four-stop, but it doesn't have to be. I've seen both LMMM and MMMH but mostly on 2-row or 3-row boxes.
Also three voice one-rows are fairly common, usually LMM. Kay Albrecht's boxes are like that - lovely instruments: https://aaccordion.com

I once played a 4 voice that was MMMM. It was amazing. When you played a G (or any note) ... wow, you were really playing that G. It was lovely, in a wet and wild way.
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triskel

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2017, 07:28:28 PM »

Some say that the Saxony one rows and Hohners were the original Cajun boxes ...

They used to all be made in Saxony, including the Sterlings and the Monarchs, which were made (for different importers) in the same factory. I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest they were playing Hohner accordions before WW2, but afterwards there was nothing else available.

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- albeit with some home produced, but anti-German feeling during the World Wars destroyed the trade and home-grown became the norm.

Or you'll hear that the accordion factory got bombed in WW2 - which isn't true either...

But no, there were no home producers  before WW2, and 1933 seems (in retrospect) to have been a crossroads year:

Firstly, Edouard Dienst, the manufacturer of those wonderful old Sterling/Monarch/Globe "Gold Medal" etc. accordions died then, and the business closed down.

Secondly, it was a bad time, worldwide, financially, and the Nazis were just coming to power in Germany, whilst big, flashy piano accordions were all the rage and even the very best of 10-key melodeons must have seemed very dull-looking, musically limited, and downright out of date.

Thirdly, the influential band the Hackberry Ramblers formed - playing a more string-band/western-swing style of Cajun music that became fashionable and took over from the older, raw, accordion-led, "chank-a-chank" music.

Then, after WW2, Cajun GIs came home hungry for the familiarity of their old down-home culture, and Iry LeJeune became a big influence in reviving the old accordion-led music. But there were no new accordions being made any longer that were really suitable, so people had to start repairing the old Sterlings and Monarchs, then rebuilding new Hohner 114s (which were the only ones available by then) to make them more like those pre-war models, before finally starting to build their own from scratch.

That's (pretty much) how it started...

911377brian

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2017, 08:51:33 PM »

Great post,Triskel. Everything I've been curious about in a nutshell...
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blafleur

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2017, 10:57:21 PM »

"Cajun sound" would come from 2 elements...the tuning first of all, because a big part of the sound you hear in cajun music comes from the partial chords.  For that reason we flatten the 3rds and 7ths.  Pulling the 7 and 10 (or the 6 and 7) buttons gives a partial G chord on a C accordion, and is very commonly used in almost every cajun song. 

The other part of the sound is the playing.  Seems cajun players play a bit longer bass note than most other genres, and there are lot of double notes and filler notes on the melody side.  Some players over do the fillers to the point you can't hear the melody.  One other simple thing done by accomplished players, is long held notes in the middle of some fast thrills.  This, to me, is the hardest to do, even though it's a simple thing. Putting it in the right place at the right time, and coming out of it at the right time is a sign of a master player to me.

Cajun accordions generally have the LMMH mentioned earlier, but you can get away with LMH, especially if amplified.  You can even get away to  a lesser degree with LH.  But the classic power comes from the 4 reeds per note, and since it's usually played 2 notes at a time, 8 reeds sounding on the treble side, plus the bass notes.

The old Saxony boxes are still highly sought after among the Cajun crowd, for their rich sound and because Cajuns tend to be very sentimental. 

Garry Probert

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2017, 11:29:57 PM »

Hi blafleur ,triskel fascinating stuff love the historical info ,been listening to the Hackberry Ramblers
and watching lots of cajun melodeon players .....................will buy some crayfish at the weekend might even get me old hat out.
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blafleur

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2017, 03:26:01 AM »

At the time that damned Texas swing string music infiltrated and infected Cajun music in the 30's, the accordion was fairly new in Cajun music. The first music in Louisiana was just fiddles.  Some of the very old fiddlers when I was a kid, my great grandfather one of them, thought the accordion destroyed the beautiful old cajun music.  There is no real traditional cajun music, it's just been an ever changing chameleon, taking characteristics of it's surroundings.

triskel

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2017, 04:13:23 AM »

Cajun accordions generally have the LMMH mentioned earlier, but you can get away with LMH, especially if amplified.  You can even get away to  a lesser degree with LH.

You mean, you actually USE the stop knobs? ;)  I've been told, emphatically, by older makers that you shouldn't and they're only there for tuners to use... ???  (Whilst some players seem to think they're only a covenient "handle" for picking the box up and putting it down.)

Quote
The old Saxony boxes are still highly sought after among the Cajun crowd, for their rich sound and because Cajuns tend to be very sentimental.

In Irish music there have been lots of different iconic models of accordion over the years, and the Globe "Gold Medal" is only one, and the earliest, of them. But there's plenty of sentiment for old sounds and it would be unusual for there to be any accordion less than 50 years old being played at our Saturday night session of music...  (:)

triskel

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 04:44:47 AM »

The first music in Louisiana was just fiddles.  Some of the very old fiddlers when I was a kid, my great grandfather one of them, thought the accordion destroyed the beautiful old cajun music.

I love the old fiddle recordings of Dennis McGee and Sady Courville, and they even played reels! But the rise in popularity of the 10-key accordion must have been felt as dominating and (with its limited range of notes and fixed intonation) very restrictive by the fiddle players...

In most places/cultures accordions started to become popular with traditional musicians in the late 1870s/early 1880s, though they tended to be frowned on and even ignored by some commentators then, and they really came into their own in the early years of the 20th century.

Quote
There is no real traditional cajun music, it's just been an ever changing chameleon, taking characteristics of it's surroundings.

I think that applies to traditional music generally, it evolves to suit the time and the place.

triskel

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2017, 05:18:53 AM »

I once played a 4 voice that was MMMM. It was amazing. When you played a G (or any note) ... wow, you were really playing that G. It was lovely, in a wet and wild way.

That's usually an option on the old Baldoni/Walters 6 and 8-voice boxes, when you switch out the bassoon and piccolo reeds.

Malcolm Clapp

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2017, 08:30:26 AM »


You mean, you actually USE the stop knobs? ;)  I've been told, emphatically, by older makers that you shouldn't and they're only there for tuners to use... ???  (Whilst some players seem to think they're only a covenient "handle" for picking the box up and putting it down.)


I thought they were just somewhere to put a rubber band or two, and a couple of clothes pegs, in case you need them for something important...  8)
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triskel

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2017, 11:21:41 AM »

You mean, you actually USE the stop knobs? ;) 

I thought they were just somewhere to put a rubber band or two, and a couple of clothes pegs, in case you need them for something important...  8)

That's only true with the Hohner ones mind you...  ;)

Nick Collis Bird

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2017, 12:00:38 PM »

Yep, correct. Kay Albrecht's are magnetic. As I said before, lots of model aircraft parts.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 12:04:03 PM by Nick Collis Bird »
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2017, 08:11:54 AM »

Necessary or not, I'd still be hanging the odd rubber band and (especially) a clothes peg there; can be a great conversation starter....and a lot less harmful to the instrument (and less annoying to the listener) than a set of jangling car keys, which I've seen on more than one occasion.
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blafleur

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2017, 01:20:30 PM »

You mean, you actually USE the stop knobs? ;)  I've been told, emphatically, by older makers that you shouldn't and they're only there for tuners to use... ???  (Whilst some players seem to think they're only a covenient "handle" for picking the box up and putting it down.)

In Irish music there have been lots of different iconic models of accordion over the years, and the Globe "Gold Medal" is only one, and the earliest, of them. But there's plenty of sentiment for old sounds and it would be unusual for there to be any accordion less than 50 years old being played at our Saturday night session of music...  (:)

Ha, yeah, I've heard that.  Well, just goes to prove that not all old builders are players. There are some cajun songs where the L is taken out.

 
The first music in Louisiana was just fiddles.  Some of the very old fiddlers when I was a kid, my great grandfather one of them, thought the accordion destroyed the beautiful old cajun music.

I love the old fiddle recordings of Dennis McGee and Sady Courville, and they even played reels! But the rise in popularity of the 10-key accordion must have been felt as dominating and (with its limited range of notes and fixed intonation) very restrictive by the fiddle players...

In most places/cultures accordions started to become popular with traditional musicians in the late 1870s/early 1880s, though they tended to be frowned on and even ignored by some commentators then, and they really came into their own in the early years of the 20th century.

Dennis Mcgee was my great grandfather.  He adapted to playing alongside the accordion early, but he always held that treasure trove of pre-accordion music that kind of faded away after the accordion showed up to the party.  But there were many old fiddlers that did not hide their contempt of the limitations of that 10 button intruder.  Luckily, there are a few fiddlers keeping alive pere pere Denus' old music, and some of the other old fiddle music like that of the Balfa's.

I have little substantiation, but i feel a very big reason the accordion came into popularity in south Louisiana, and the reason Cajun music sounds like it does today, is because the black population got a hold of it. I think the percussive and syncopative rhythms you hear on old style cajun recordings came from them.

rees

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2017, 01:02:03 AM »

Amadee Ardoin being the pivotal link between the early black jure style and white Cajun music. Cleoma and Joe Falcon recorded just after him and the continuity is there.
Meanwhile, black musicians progressed through La-La accordion to Zydeco.
Fiddlers, Dennis McGee, Sady Courville, Canray Fontenot - good to know that the young folks are keeping that stuff alive.
Real folk music.
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Psuggmog Volbenz

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2017, 07:53:08 AM »

Is LMMH the standard setup 4 voice on any melodeon? sorry only have 2 voice  I have 5 melodeons but all 2 voice lol
LMMH is the most common voicing on a one-row four-stop, but it doesn't have to be. I've seen both LMMM and MMMH but mostly on 2-row or 3-row boxes.
Also three voice one-rows are fairly common, usually LMM. Kay Albrecht's boxes are like that - lovely instruments: https://aaccordion.com
I have a few old one row, four stop boxes from pre WWII which are LLMM including one that has Dix reeds.
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melodeon

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2017, 02:21:26 PM »

"I have little substantiation, but i feel a very big reason the accordion came into popularity in south Louisiana, and the reason Cajun music sounds like it does today, is because the black population got a hold of it. I think the percussive and syncopative rhythms you hear on old style cajun recordings came from them."

Do other Cajuns share your thoughts on this. ?


Accordeons were cheap, loud and could be a "stand alone" instrument....  all reasons to get and play one.
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blafleur

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2017, 04:52:55 PM »

Amadee Ardoin being the pivotal link between the early black jure style and white Cajun music. Cleoma and Joe Falcon recorded just after him and the continuity is there.
Meanwhile, black musicians progressed through La-La accordion to Zydeco.

Even that's not so simple.  Amede was pivotal with the timing of his recordings, but many, most, or all of his tunes were learned from other people in the area.  No one really knows where most of the melodies came from, though often attributed to the first to record.  There are an awful lot of different influences that affected what is now thought of as Cajun music.  What Amede and Denus McGee were very well known for in our area, along with Iry Lejeune later, was making up their own lyrics.  Many songs had different words each time they were sung, or at least some were different.  Another factor is that at one time the music in Louisiana was very regional, readily available recordings in the 30's changed that. 

 
"I have little substantiation, but i feel a very big reason the accordion came into popularity in south Louisiana, and the reason Cajun music sounds like it does today, is because the black population got a hold of it. I think the percussive and syncopative rhythms you hear on old style cajun recordings came from them."

Do other Cajuns share your thoughts on this. ?


Sure, many do, but no matter the theory, it's all speculation.  A sure sign of someone's lack of in depth knowledge in the matter is giving a for sure pat answer.  There are few.  Heck, no one really knows for sure when or who brought the accordion to La. 

blafleur

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2017, 05:22:49 PM »

Recording the actual sound and way the accordion is played for Cajun music, I've also never been able to find out where that came from.  Our music is played with mostly 2 finger octave playing, intermixed with a few single finger thrills, and for the better players, some occasional long drawn out notes.  The bass notes seem to be held slightly longer than other genres.  Anyone know or speculate where this style might have come from?

melodeon

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Re: cajun melodeon whats the secret to the sound?
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2017, 08:08:31 PM »

Bryan,

Somewhere in the mix are the catalogue companies hustling musical instruments to include 10 button accordeons.

Leadbelly played the one row (Windjammer) .. and I am certain many other black musicians did likewise.
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