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[HallelujahAl]

Melodeons (esp my BCC#) really are limited aren't they? A casual example. I got out a very simple little round dance that used to be a Grade 1 Piano Accordion Piece (Trinity, not BCA) and thought I'd have a go at it on the BCC# - to discover its not capable of playing a simple little cadence - example below. Can any of you BCC# 'ers out there tell me how to play it? Because although its dead simple - you can't play G on the push and D on the pull at the same time! Its very frustrating...perhaps I'm not supposed to play proper music on this thing?

[stevejay]

Well with many folk instruments, willingness to compromise is a good thing. Think of the poor busker, missing a melody note here and there, getting bumped by a passerby lol. Sort of the same.

[GbH]

With the melodeon, I find it better to assume that it can't do a whole lot and that yes, its scope is really rather limited.  That way, I get to feel pleased any time I manage to crack something that initially seemed unlikely to work, even if others don't necessarily understand the reason for my excitement.

Guy

[forrest]

With the melodeon, I find it better to assume that it can't do a whole lot and that yes, its scope is really rather limited.  That way, I get to feel pleased any time I manage to crack something that initially seemed unlikely to work, even if others don't necessarily understand the reason for my excitement.

Guy

  The master architect Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe said "Less is More"

[HallelujahAl]

The master architect Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe said "Less is More"

Well, I'm not really asking for either more or less - I'd just like to be able to play a really simple and oft found cadence. The key is C major - the underlying chord moves from G to C - and requires that the notes G & D be played at the same time before resolving (through F) to C. Shame that it can't be done, that's all.
 

[Sandy]

I think I try and find what the melodeon can give rather than get what I want out of it. Sometimes that means I can achieve something quite complex, sometimes it is strictly simple, but the box is in control. Have I had too much red wine??

[Steve C.]

Best parallel I can think of is with the diatonic harmonica, which is even "more limited" than even the most basic one row accordion/melodeon.
Lots of harmonicists carry a full set, often 10-20 instruments with them, in order to be able to match keys, music styles, etc.
But the beauty, you really should try one of these if you have never, is to get something like an Am or Bbm Harmonic Minor harmonica (Lee Oskar, maybe Hohner) or similar, and you can see how the music for that particular instrument, in that particular key, just flowwwws.  Anyone can play Klezmer in one day.  (Just don't try and play Morris on one).
I guess that is why MAD is incorrectly considered a disease. It is actually a rational response.

[graememackay]

There's always an alternative to the dots on the page.  ok so you can't play D&G, but if it's for a G harmony, you can use G&B instead or whatever suits the chords

Yes we are limited, but there's no instrument like us

[george garside]

naturally I agree with Graeme!  The dots are only one  arrangement of a tune and  there are usually several other arrangements around. Not being able to come & go at the same time  is not at all  restrictive, in fact its quite the opposite as it encourages creative arrangements that  usually sound at least as good as or often better than that in somebody elses written version. I hate it when the classical lot say something like 'you have to improvise on that thing!'  to which my answer is  no Im not improvising I'm playing music whilst you are just replicating what is on a sheet of paper!' That must be terribly restictive.

george

[Chris Ryall]

Graeme's right. You perhaps have to change your attitude/mission from playing the dots to playing the music. I don't know the piece you mean and can't quite understand the cadence you describe but it sounds that the underlying chords go

  G7 (dominant) => C (tonic)

Actually, the only really critical notes in G7 chord are its B and its F. "The others are decoration" to quote myself! B/F form the 'ringing' tri-tone that forces resolution into C. To prove this - play if you can Db F Ab B (chord of Db7). Quite a different chord containlng B/F in a different order - but still resolving to the key of C.

So just ignore those dots and experiment with other notes in the context of your tune. F is already there and needs B as stated above. Either G or D will be happy but you'll not need both. If either is missing on the RH you can perhaps 'borrow' it on the left hand, depending on what bases you have? Bass lines matter - so G is probably more important one if it's a choice.

At risk of sounding jazzy a G79 chord adds a 2^nd octave A (or G7#9 adds A#) and both of these also resolve to C major.  Don't bother trying Ab which pushes the music into C minor

The 'technical' chord built on B bass is Bmin7,b5   This looks scary until you realise it's simply BDFA = adjacent pull buttons on a C row It contains the same tri-tone, so it resolves to C just the same.

Hope one of these ideas works, and you might even 'improvise' using a different one second time through.

If it's any comfort I faced the same issues on my Oakwood which has Ab and Eb different directions. Chording in more b's than F - I had to fake in the same way. So yes, they are limited. Therein .. much fun Chris

PS George beat me to reply (less words?) - and he's right too  
PPS Have corrected the B chord, whoops

[waltzman]

I just got John Spiers' DVD.  One of the first things he says is 'You can't do everything on it...it's a melodeon.'

[HallelujahAl]

I appreciate and agree with most folks comments - I'm no slave to written music, and I think one of the joys of playing the melodeon is often to try and find ways around these kind of problems. I guess I was just infuriated that something so simple was just not achieveable. Also the piece that I was playing is a graded examination piece for PA which of course meant that I was definitely in the 'playing the score' mode. I guess if there was sucha thing as a syllabus for BCC# it wouldn't make an appearance as it is impossible to play?
AL

[Chris Ryall]

John K confided to me many years ago that his BCC# was hardest to play in C.  Not done the calculation, but D and G notes are in opposite directions I can well understand that.

I bet Eb's a lot easier than mine though ....  I wouldn't worry about not being able to play a 'graded PA piece' perfectly to the dots. When I tried a jazz course last year many of the 'standards' the sax's found trivial were complete pigs on the box. Horses for courses?

[HallelujahAl]

John K confided to me many years ago that his BCC# was hardest to play in C.

I think that's the prob - I expected C to be the easier key to play in. However, there'll always be times in other keys too when you want to play both D & G at the same time on the rh...
AL

[Chris Ryall]

However, there'll always be times in other keys too when you want to play both D & G at the same time on the rh...AL

Not in melody, and surprisingly little for chords. The good news is that notes an exact 5^th apart (D = 5^th of G) share loads of harmonics. There is so little tension between them that they add virtually no 'colour' to chords. It's nearly always possible to omit one without the ear noticing. Or borrow from LH buttons, a favourite fix chez moi.

Contast my C#DG, which orginally had almost all D and E notes opposite way   (OK, a rather dark D bass on pull) 

Yer D (=7^th) is such an important note in building Em chords that I eventually filed a duplicated C on the C# row up to D. All went well and nothing fell off. Both Em and G scales are much more fluid for this. I can also now 'extend' my A minor and C chords to get a richer sound 

[HallelujahAl]

However, there'll always be times in other keys too when you want to play both D & G at the same time on the rh...AL

Not in melody, and surprisingly little for chords.

Sorry got to disagree with you here's one of my faves which is on my music stand as I speak: an extract from 'Shepherd by' Cyril Barnes which is primarily chords in the right hand

[HallelujahAl]

Ah! Dots again

yeah - annoying aren't they?
AL

[george garside]

 . Also the piece that I was playing is a graded examination piece for PA which of course meant that I was definitely in the 'playing the score' mode. I guess if there was sucha thing as a syllabus for BCC# it wouldn't make an appearance as it is impossible to play?
AL
[/Iquote]

IN volume 4 of Rob Howards 4 book series the A to Z of accordions (book 4 published in May 2009) I was aked to contribute a 2000 word feature on 'diatonics' this I entitled 'One mans diatonic musings'   As it happeded I covered Al's point on exams as follows  "

" The 'sook and blaw' boxes also provide freedom from worrying about exams & grades as they are not really suited to the classical way of learning.  Some of the right hand chords in compulsory test pieces cannot be played as it is absolutely impossible to come and go at the same time!  You may well be able to play nicer sounding chords, but they won't get you through the grades.............."

Robs 4  hard back books  contain a great deal  of interesting stuff   in the form of a series of short articles on a very wide range of free reed topics, history and personalities.

george

[HallelujahAl]

IN volume 4 of Rob Howards 4 book series the A to Z of accordions (book 4 published in May 2009) I was aked to contribute a 2000 word feature on 'diatonics' this I entitled 'One mans diatonic musings'   As it happeded I covered Al's point on exams as follows  "

" The 'sook and blaw' boxes also provide freedom from worrying about exams & grades as they are not really suited to the classical way of learning.  Some of the right hand chords in compulsory test pieces cannot be played as it is absolutely impossible to come and go at the same time!  You may well be able to play nicer sounding chords, but they won't get you through the grades.............."

Robs 4  hard back books  contain a great deal  of interesting stuff   in the form of a series of short articles on a very wide range of free reed topics, history and personalities.

george

I keep intending to get round to buying and reading Robs four volume set one day
AL

[Bananayogi]

Some years ago, I went on a residential melodeon course for a few days down in Cornwall.

There was one chap on it who spent much of the time going on about how melodeons couldn't do this and couldn't do that. After a while he showed us some designs for an 'improved' melodeon that he had invented himself. I cannot recall his name, but some of you probably came across him. Nice enough chap, and very inventive - as I remember, to me it looked as if he had reinvented the Anglo Concertina with a few extra buttons, in a different shaped case.

The point of the 'story' is that I probably enjoyed the course more than he did since I was (am probably still am!) not very good, and was amazed by what I and others COULD make the instruments do, rather than worrying about what it couldn't. Listen to a good English, Irish or Cajun player on a one row. Ten buttons. Incredible. If you haven't got the right note - play another one. If you haven't got the right chord on the left - use some of the notes on the right, or just play the wrong one anyway!

The limitations are (for me) what makes the instrument what it is. If you want all the notes in all the directions, surely a PA or some sort of fully chromatic CBA is the way to go - but then you wouldn't actually be playing a melodeon, an instrument that is as much defined (for me) by what it can't do much as what it can!