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Author Topic: Bass Fingers  (Read 4037 times)

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Don Bergland

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Bass Fingers
« on: July 13, 2017, 02:53:07 PM »

I am a novice on the melodeon, but enjoying the dynamic cognitive challenge the instrument offers. I am currently working my way through two different methods:

- Pignol & Milleret - Methode d'accordeon diatonique Vol. 1
- Gianni Danese - Accademia del Mantice - Online instruction

I am enjoying the structure and detailed pedagogy offered by both these systems. But, as I knew I would, I have come across some differences in technique:

- Danese suggests using three fingers on the bass
- Pignol/Milleret suggest using four fingers on the bass

In your opinion, which of these suggestions is best to follow and why?

Thanks
Don
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Daddy Long Les

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 03:26:58 PM »

Simple for me Don. Logical.  Four fingers/Four buttons on each row of an 8 row box. I started with three but quickly moved to four.  Never regretted it in six years of playing. For me it's logical and I never have to think about which finger is going to play which button - it's always the same in every tune even on crossrow chords like Am7 and Bm7. Others will say other things. Some players only use two left hand fingers. You'll find loads of other threads on this if you dig around.

I have very long fingers and I'm a guitarist so this might make a difference.  As with a lot of things there is no definitive answer to this question.  What works for me might not work for you.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:53:56 PM by Daddy Long Les »
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Lester

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 03:49:09 PM »



I have been playing for 40 years and have only ever played with two fingers because that's what people did in the 70's and it's far too hard to change (or I'm too lazy). It's not the best way for everyone but works perfectly well for me on an 8 bass button box.

Others prefer 4 fingers which I've tried but my little finger just could not cope. Whereas it is my brain that can can't cope with 3 fingers due to a finger sometimes being the bass finger and sometimes the chord finger  :o

Anyone coming on here saying 'never this' or 'always that' is wrong, do what suits you best.

Don Bergland

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 03:56:24 PM »

As with a lot of things there is no definitive answer to this question.  What works for me might not work for you.
I appreciate your clear response and your explanation concerning why you use the particular approach you do. I have encountered this same issue with other musical instruments (especially touchstyle guitar), where there are adherents of different finger techniques. Some of these adherents make passionate claims for their particular methods (and have even written books explaining why one should use the finger technique they advocate). So far I haven't come across any explanation from either of the melodeon methods (Pignol/Milleret or Danese) I am following as to why I should use their approach (four fingers or three). I do have long fingers and can use all four, but I feel more comfortable using three. At this point in my learning, should I yield to comfort, or push myself towards utility?
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Don Bergland

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 04:02:32 PM »

Anyone coming on here saying 'never this' or 'always that' is wrong, do what suits you best.
Thanks, Lester. I tend to want to do exactly what you say - do what suits me best! For me, that would be playing with three fingers (as suggested by Danese and the Accademia del Mantice). But I am just in the beginning stages on the melodeon at the moment, and can probably shape my learning style towards either viewpoint. If I am limiting myself through the use of three fingers, I'm at a good stage to easily make the change.
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MarioP

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 04:10:49 PM »

Do what suites for the styles of music you wil play

In my case there's a lot of two fingering in the bass but swapping between both rows which is kinder like using the four finger technique. But surely agree with the rest don't limit yourself to one answer rather see who the pros are playing those songs you like at least that's what's helped me in my early days 2 months ago  :|||: ;D 8) :o :P :P
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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 04:13:32 PM »

For me, this varies according to the type of tune. (Again, I know others play differently - this is just what works for me.) For relatively straightforward dance tunes with a lot of um-pah -ing I tend to use two or three fingers. I find that helps to keep a constant tempo, and somehow sets the right kind of background for the melody. For more complicated tunes, with cross-rowing in the bass, and/or more complex rhythmic patterns, I tend to use all four fingers. Here, I'm often going for more legato in the bass, which I find much easier if I use more fingers. When I'm learning a new tune, I fairly consciously decide which approach I'm going to take. I think there's something about thinking through both the ergonomics, and the musical effect you're after?
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Don Bergland

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 04:21:24 PM »

Do what suites for the styles of music you will play... see who the pros are playing those songs you like...

I appreciate the wisdom. The styles I like best are represented by the French/Italian tradition, and the players I enjoy are Milleret and Danese. Each of these virtuosos suggest a different approach. As I mentioned previously, neither has given a strong reason in their learning materials (so far) supporting their particular viewpoint.

Maybe I'm being lazy. Gianni Danese has been very helpful and interactive in the online video lessons I have been pursuing with him, so I should just email him and ask him why he suggests three fingers for bass work.
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Daddy Long Les

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 04:23:02 PM »

As with a lot of things there is no definitive answer to this question.  What works for me might not work for you.
I appreciate your clear response and your explanation concerning why you use the particular approach you do. I have encountered this same issue with other musical instruments (especially touchstyle guitar), where there are adherents of different finger techniques. Some of these adherents make passionate claims for their particular methods (and have even written books explaining why one should use the finger technique they advocate). So far I haven't come across any explanation from either of the melodeon methods (Pignol/Milleret or Danese) I am following as to why I should use their approach (four fingers or three). I do have long fingers and can use all four, but I feel more comfortable using three. At this point in my learning, should I yield to comfort, or push myself towards utility?
Three fingers definitely feels more comfortable to me and I sometimes find myself envying the players that use this method even to the point of trying it again but I always return to four - for me it just works and I am able to accept the small amount of discomfort in keeping that fourth finger on the lowest two bass buttons.
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Lester

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 04:43:26 PM »

Three fingers definitely feels more comfortable to me and I sometimes find myself envying the players that use this method even to the point of trying it again but I always return to four - for me it just works and I am able to accept the small amount of discomfort in keeping that fourth finger on the lowest two bass buttons.

I think that is probably why I gave up with 4 fingers, the harder buttons to play are the lower 4, in my case the 3 chord trick for the key of G, which is the key I play the bulk of my tunes in.

Winston Smith

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 05:15:00 PM »

"should I yield to comfort, or push myself towards utility?"

Although I've been playing for almost 2 years, I'm still a rank novice. It occurs to me that I might never advance much in my technique etc simply because I always, without fail, tend to the "yielding to comfort"!
If it's your intention to play properly, perhaps you should be leaning towards pushing yourself. What's good enough for a few old farts, isn't necessarily any good for younger, more serious blokes.
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Lester

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 05:20:39 PM »


If it's your intention to play properly, perhaps you should be leaning towards pushing yourself. What's good enough for a few old farts, isn't necessarily any good for younger, more serious blokes.

So 'old farts' are not serious about their playing  :'(

Daddy Long Les

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 05:34:52 PM »

"should I yield to comfort, or push myself towards utility?"

Although I've been playing for almost 2 years, I'm still a rank novice. It occurs to me that I might never advance much in my technique etc simply because I always, without fail, tend to the "yielding to comfort"!
If it's your intention to play properly, perhaps you should be leaning towards pushing yourself. What's good enough for a few old farts, isn't necessarily any good for younger, more serious blokes.

At 64, but having only been playing for six years am I an "old fart" or a "younger, more serious bloke"?  ;D ;D ;D
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Don Bergland

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 05:45:32 PM »

What's good enough for a few old farts, isn't necessarily any good for younger, more serious blokes.

I appreciate the sage advice. Although I'm serious, I'm hardly young. I'm beginning this melodeon journey at the age of 71.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 06:02:31 PM »

Foot-in-mouth again, I see!
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baz parkes

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 08:42:54 PM »


If it's your intention to play properly, perhaps you should be leaning towards pushing yourself. What's good enough for a few old farts, isn't necessarily any good for younger, more serious blokes.

So 'old farts' are not serious about their playing  :'(

yeh....that Bob Cann and Oscar Woods...WTF did they know, eh? And don't start me on that Percy Brown bloke.... :|glug
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george garside

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 08:50:02 PM »

as others have said it all depends on the type of music  you are playing and in particular whether you use the bass mainly to drive a rhythm or to play   harmonising chords.

For the latter 3 or 4 fingers make life easier but for most types of dance music I find 2 fingers more than adequate as I prefer  a good light rhythmic bass  and   put harmonising chords in on the treble end where appropriate

the above remarks apply to a simple 8 bass box but the more bass on a melodeon the more sense it probably makes to use more fingers.

For 12 bass stradella eg on Erica and double ray 2 fingers are sufficient but with larger stradella eg 96 bass using 4 fingers is the norm.

george



« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 08:51:44 PM by george garside »
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Clive Williams

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 09:17:42 PM »

I find I play with 4, but only if playing in D on a D/G; if playing in G I'll play with 2 usually, unless doing clever drone stuff on the Mory. So yes. And no. :-)

Winston Smith

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 11:08:58 PM »

I apologise for writing something which could be misinterpreted! By "a few old farts" I actually meant a few old farts, like me or with my outlook. I thought it (and still do) was plainly obvious, especially on a forum where people are generally pleasant and nice to each other, but apparently not.
Nevertheless, I'm quite certain that it doesn't warrant the use of shortened obscenities! I'm really quite shocked by such vitriol!
BTW, I also apologise to Don for interrupting the flow of the thread by being forced to to explain myself.
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Lyra

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Re: Bass Fingers
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2017, 05:48:36 AM »

Foot-in-mouth again, I see!
No - really, the location of your foot does not influence fingers on bass keys. (IMHO)

I use 4. Because I am a trained touch typist wot learned on them mechanical machines and I can therefore lift trucks with my pinkie thanks to the scary women at Pitman College. So it just feels natural.
My teacher (ahem, Melonbox) uses three  but we rub along regardless.
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