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Author Topic: Anyone dried out a HA114?  (Read 1887 times)

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mselic

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Anyone dried out a HA114?
« on: July 26, 2017, 09:03:29 PM »

I'm wondering if anyone has dried out or reduced the tremolo on a Hohner HA114 (4 stop)? I'm toying with the idea and I'm wondering if anyone has done it and has sound samples of what it might sound like (with all 4 stops up). The closest I've found are a few YouTube videos of the black "Cajun" HA114, but that sounds like it's completely dry and also Cajun-tuned. I'd be interested in possibly a drier sound although not completely dry. I hesitate to try it out, for there's something iconic about that Hohner 4-stop sound that would be lost...
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C#/D Serenellini 233, Manfrini, Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and a few HA114s

blafleur

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 09:57:27 PM »

I've retuned them dry, generally to play Cajun music.  I like the sound of a dry Hohner.

gettabettabox

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 12:55:03 AM »

I'm wondering if anyone has dried out or reduced the tremolo on a Hohner HA114 (4 stop)? I'm toying with the idea and I'm wondering if anyone has done it and has sound samples of what it might sound like (with all 4 stops up). The closest I've found are a few YouTube videos of the black "Cajun" HA114, but that sounds like it's completely dry and also Cajun-tuned. I'd be interested in possibly a drier sound although not completely dry. I hesitate to try it out, for there's something iconic about that Hohner 4-stop sound that would be lost...

For me, your last sentence says it all!

Unless your HA114 has been professionally fettled?...by leaving out the M+ reeds, it will likely still have some mild tremolo or at least a thicker sound (than it should have) even on the LMH setting. Not the same of course as what you are proposing, but gives an idea.
I dare not interfere too much with my current HA114 in D, but I do have another one in a box that keeps asking me to replace the H reeds with a third M!  I'm not even going to look to see if the block would accommodate that!
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Rog

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 12:55:21 AM »

If you close one of the M stops (preferably the sharp M set) you'll get a totally dry LMH sound (obviously)  which isn't far from a dried out LMMH and is a lot less hassle  (:) In fact I'm just converting a Student V LMM pa to LMH for a customer.

melodeon

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 01:14:07 AM »

It is possible to shut down the higher M reed but that leaves you with Hohner's "almost" tuning.

Hohner's tuning has never been equivalent to any measurable standard.. always "wonky". Now if that is "iconic" so be it.. still sucks.

The HA114B was NOT Cajun tuned (obviously because it was not tuned by a Cajun) .  It was drier and perhaps some notes slightly flatted (none sharped as is the case with Savoy's "Cajun" tuning).. mine, purchased new,  was simply 12TET and "almost" tuned  and drier than Hohner's usual "almost" 17 cents..

Have the box tuned....  as in,  go to a base line of A440 and continue from that point.. something Hohner rarely did.
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gettabettabox

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 09:10:23 AM »

Poor old Hohner, getting knocked a bit here.
Historically, What they they did, was to provide an affordable instrument that was good to get people dancing?
Tuning wasn't perhaps so important in such situations, volume yes. This was often a solo instrument.

I appreciate that 'almost' tuning is not appreciated in the contemporary sense.  :||:
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Theo

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 09:24:21 AM »

If you have a strong tremolo as is typical of Hohners, anything from 18cents(4Hz) to 27cents(6Hz) then the somewhat wonky Hohner factory tuning is not particularly obvious while playing.  But if you want to reduce or eliminate the tremolo from the MM reeds then you would also need to carefully tune all the reeds to get a good dry or swing sound. 
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Winston Smith

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 10:21:25 AM »

GBB, I would wholly agree with your post........"Historically, What they they did, was to provide an affordable instrument that was good to get people dancing"
The same has happened throughout entirely different spheres......
Holidays? Thomas Cook and Thomson Holidays have opened up the world to the "ordinary" family, only to now be sneered at by today's sophisticated travellers.
Daily transport? Ford and Morris et al made personal transport affordable, but their humble offerings are now belittled, in favour of the mighty German competition.
I love my Hohners, but then I don't have a Costalotti with which to compare them, only my old bits of firewood, lol. The world is changing!
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mselic

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 12:27:56 PM »

I will very often play with just the LMH stops on my Hohners as I like the sound of it. However, sometimes a more full and dynamic sound is desired, so I open up all four.  The typically wet sound can get a little tiresome for me sometimes, hence my question. My guess is I would likely play in LMMH more often if it was a little drier. The box is currently at the tuners and will get a proper tuning next week (starting at A440 and working from there). If I want to make any changes to the degree of wetness on the M+ row, now would be my chance.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 12:41:11 PM by mselic »
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C#/D Serenellini 233, Manfrini, Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and a few HA114s

mselic

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 12:39:42 PM »

In regards to Hohner's status as a cheap, beginner's instrument, I have to confess that even as an owner of a lovely, high-end one-row box, I still get more excited playing the Hohners ;)
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C#/D Serenellini 233, Manfrini, Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and a few HA114s

Rog

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 12:53:51 PM »

To make a sweeping generalisation....and a bit off topic....Hohners tend to be much more lightly built than more expensive instruments. Notice this also on old Hohner PAs. I think this has a lot to do with the resonances they emit, as mentioned by Mike Rowbotham in one of his posts.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 01:15:00 PM by RogerT »
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melodeon

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 03:23:47 PM »

My two favorite brands of accordeons are Castagnari and older German made Hohners.  I have owned about 25 Hohners, currently have  an HA112 in A undergoing reconstruction, HA 113 in A, and an HA 114 in C from the 50s.

When a car comes off the assembly line it is sent to a dealer where it has a pre delivery service to bring it into spec.
When accordeons are sent to dealers I believe they should undergo a pre delivery inspection/ adjustment . Some dealers do this, some do not.
I have said this before. Accordeons are Kits. They often need to be brought into specification and fettled/adjusted to suit the player. 
Hohners are wonderful instruments made better by a proper tuning. Regardless of a fondness for Hohner's high level of tremolo (more-so in current years to avoid having to tune them properly at time of production) they sound better tuned. They also sound better, in my opinion, with a reduced tremolo. They sound great when "Cajun" tuned.
That improved tuning with some air leakage attention and padding the keyboard ( if not replacing it with another) makes for a great box.

When I used to busk on Cannery Row in Monterey.. the tips were higher with a Hohner. And you can run faster with the lighter Hohner when the cops come. And no fear of dropping a Costalotta.

Walter Vergini (RIP) used to overhaul my Hohner Ericas and Pokerworks to include  complete leathering (leather, not plastic)
proper tuning, action adjustments etc, what fine instruments.  He liked German made Hohners pre 80s. So do I.
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squeezy

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 11:54:24 AM »

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it involved the river in Sidmouth and Nick Collis Bird.  It seems I was mistaken.
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Squeezy

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mselic

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Re: Anyone dried out a HA114?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2017, 09:31:50 PM »

Well, I did it! I took my time and carefully re-tuned the M+ bank of reeds on my HA114D to reduce the overall tremolo, and I'm very happy with the results!  I did it in stages, first reducing it a little, playing it for a time, and then ultimately deciding to take it down a little further.  As it is now, the LMH rows are tuned to A442Hz (that's how the box came), and the M+ row is tuned to 444Hz (it was originally tuned to 446Hz).  I don't know how else to describe the tuning.  It sounds good to me, in all the various voicing configurations, and I would definitely say it's an improvement to my ear; a little more of a "clean" sound.  It still has punch, and it still has the characteristic harshness and "buzz" of Hohner reeds, so there's no mistaking it for anything else!
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C#/D Serenellini 233, Manfrini, Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and a few HA114s
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