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Author Topic: How do you keep a tune going?  (Read 20552 times)

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ladydetemps

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How do you keep a tune going?
« on: July 27, 2009, 10:56:40 PM »

How do you play a tune through (aabb) more than once? I could only play bear dance twice in succession before my left arm wanted to fall off and my right thumb was sore.

Waltham

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 11:13:12 PM »

Practice practice practice. 

Tenor saxophonoist John Coltrane had the opposite problem, his onetime employer Miles Davis complained about the length of his solos and Trane confessed "I don't know how to stop".  Miles was unsympathetic: "Try taking the damn horn out of your mouth," he suggested.
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Ellie

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 11:44:15 PM »

I found it took quite a while to get my left hand stamina up - it still gets tired before the R hand, but then it's doing more  :D When you practise at home, practise each tune at least three times through without a break, that way you get used to going back to the A the same as you would in a session as well as building stamina. Also, as you improve, you'll play faster, and can therefore get through it quicker! (not a recommended solution...)

Chris Ryall

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 07:37:16 AM »

I actually worked out with weights (I kid you not) the month before my Mori came from Italy.

But there are other ways. On a 2 row look for as many ways as possible to follow the melody using fingers (crossing the rows) as you can. That takes out a lot of bellows movement compared to labouring on one row. It's also frankly prettier (when solo) as you can play up to 6 notes against a single pull Em developing 'phrasing'.

When tired - drop into right hand chords .. halves left arm movement.

Otherwise I can only recommend more of those one-arm press ups ;)  Power to your elbow.
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Lester

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 08:09:17 AM »

Buy a one row four stop - by third time through the second tune of a set my left arm used to feel as if it had dropped off. After a number of weeks concerted playing it only feels as if it is about to drop off.

So 1R4S "as good as a gym membership"
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 08:42:00 AM by Lester »
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Theo

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 08:36:27 AM »

It is also about being relaxed when you are playing.  That too will come with practice.  Don't use any more muscles than absolutely necessary, and mental tensions (such as being new to playing with others)  can easily lead to tense muscles too.  Being conscious of the tension can help to let it go.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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ladydetemps

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 09:04:12 AM »

It is also about being relaxed when you are playing.  That too will come with practice.  Don't use any more muscles than absolutely necessary, and mental tensions (such as being new to playing with others)  can easily lead to tense muscles too.  Being conscious of the tension can help to let it go.

I do have a bad habit of the more I panic the faster I get. Its like my brain goes 'if you speed up you might get to the end before you forget what you're doing'. lol!

Theo

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 09:15:09 AM »


I do have a bad habit of the more I panic the faster I get. Its like my brain goes 'if you speed up you might get to the end before you forget what you're doing'. lol!

I think everyone has experienced that!   
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Sandy

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 09:18:34 AM »

The bellows on my new box were quite stiff and, with continuous effort, took a while to ease off.

Think some players play too hard rather than use a relaxed controlled technique which should develop as your playing improves. Don't know about really heavy boxes though.

Buy a one row four stop - by third time through the second tune of a set my left arm used to feel as if it had dropped off. After a number of weeks concerted playing it only feels as if it is about to drop off.

So 1R4S "as good as a gym membership"


Maybe walking around the house at the same time as playing is best for an all round workout.  ;D

ladydetemps

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 09:23:59 AM »


I do have a bad habit of the more I panic the faster I get. Its like my brain goes 'if you speed up you might get to the end before you forget what you're doing'. lol!

I think everyone has experienced that!   
Is there a cure?

Quote
The bellows on my new box were quite stiff and, with continuous effort, took a while to ease off.

Think some players play too hard rather than use a relaxed controlled technique which should develop as your playing improves. Don't know about really heavy boxes though.
I've been practicing and hour each evening, and four at a weekend....I find when I'm trying to be considerate and play quietly I don't ache as much as when I'm playing loudly.

Does melodeon use different muscles to concertina?



Bananayogi

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 09:26:19 AM »


I do have a bad habit of the more I panic the faster I get. Its like my brain goes 'if you speed up you might get to the end before you forget what you're doing'. lol!

I think everyone has experienced that!   
Is there a cure?

Yep - get a metronome... or use one of the online ones - http://www.metronomeonline.com/
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Theo

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 09:39:43 AM »


I've been practicing and hour each evening, and four at a weekend....I find when I'm trying to be considerate and play quietly I don't ache as much as when I'm playing loudly.

There's your answer!

Another benefit of generally playing a bit quieter is that you have some headroom left to use more volume on some phrases, notes, or even parts of notes.  That can add a whole new dimension to your playing.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 09:42:13 AM by Theo »
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Ellie

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 09:43:55 AM »

And Mr Garside of this parish will tell you that you should definitely be practising quietly (it's harder than playing loudly). And believe me, it works!

ladydetemps

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 09:51:53 AM »

And Mr Garside of this parish will tell you that you should definitely be practising quietly (it's harder than playing loudly). And believe me, it works!
Well I've been practicing quietly for a long time...but when I went to a session the other week I realised maybe a little too quietly as I couldn't hear what I was playing and maybe I aught to up the volume a little.
When I say loud its to top volume its just drowning out the tv/hoovering/nextdoors DIY loud.

Ziachmusi/Louise

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 11:09:10 AM »

I suffer from the speeding up syndrome especially if I'm running out of air. I also try practicing with a metronome every now and again and find if very difficult. What helps me most is to play very slowly, any differences in speed are much more noticeable and when I play slowly I feel that I'm much more concentrated. My problem is that I tend to jump from tune to tune, having played something six or severn times I get bored and more to the next tune. Resulting in being able to play lots of tunes badly.

Louise
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george garside

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 11:12:18 AM »

 ...but when I went to a session the other week I realised maybe a little too quietly as I couldn't hear what I was playing and maybe I aught to up the volume a little.
When I say loud its to top volume its just drowning out the tv/hoovering/nextdoors DIY loud.
[/quote]

not being able to hear yourself play is pretty normal in a reasonably large session - eventually you sort of get your ear tuned to your particular box  but not always.  The beauty of it is that everybody is in the same boat so they don't hear your mistakes either.  As an example of this I was leading a session the size of a pubfull of players at a festival  & we were playing a nice easy tune that most could join in with.  I knew something was wrong with my playing but such was the  cumulative session volume that. it took me about 6 bars worth of music before it dawned on me that I was playing the melody in D on the D row (where else!) and the bass  for the key of G!)  - nobody noticed or heard it!  So - in a reasonably large session as long as you play quietly if not sure of a tune you are unlikely to do much damage!  Just play  the bits you can & with  luck each time through the tune you get a few moe notes in.

As to weight/ physical effort required  its not directly related to the weight of the box ( assuming you have the box properly attached to yourself with 2 nice wide padded straps)  many other factors apply like the response of the reeds ( the better the reeds the more quietly you can play them) , The flexibility of the bellows, the strength of the springs controlling the pallets etc etc.  Then there is your    technique which  for some people involves a great deal of dramatic pulling & pushing coupled to waving the bellows around  in the wind - this is OK if you must but uses a hUge amount of unnecesary energy  with absolutely no musical benefit!  Keeping the bellows as near closed as possible most of the time ( there are times when only a good extension will do!) and using the wrist rather than arm movement greatly reduces energy consumption without effecting the volume to any great degree.  The other cause of huge bellows movements is heavy ( & sometimes turgid) use of the bass - this is OK in small doses if you are doingit on purpose because it enhances the proceedings) but otherwise stick to lightly tapping the bass buttons &lifting fingres off between strikes to provide a good rhythm. Also , particularly in a long session consider playing treble only for some tunes - then the bellows need hardly moving atall!

All welcome at the middle earth sesion at whitby folk week - I will be doing 3 this year  plus 4 beginnrs & 1 intermediate workshop

george
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george garside

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2009, 11:26:13 AM »

  . Resulting in being able to play lots of tunes badly.

Louise

Don't worry about it Louise, I can do it with   the greatest of  ease! It does however come in quite handy for leading long sessions!

george
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ladydetemps

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 11:33:01 AM »

I suffer from the speeding up syndrome especially if I'm running out of air. I also try practicing with a metronome every now and again and find if very difficult. What helps me most is to play very slowly, any differences in speed are much more noticeable and when I play slowly I feel that I'm much more concentrated. My problem is that I tend to jump from tune to tune, having played something six or severn times I get bored and more to the next tune. Resulting in being able to play lots of tunes badly.

Louise
yep that's just like me..plus I have real problems using the airbutton and bass...I just can't co ordinate it...on the push i can hit it by accident but on the pull no chance whatsoever.


As to weight/ physical effort required  its not directly related to the weight of the box ( assuming you have the box properly attached to yourself with 2 nice wide padded straps)  many other factors apply like the response of the reeds ( the better the reeds the more quietly you can play them) , The flexibility of the bellows, the strength of the springs controlling the pallets etc etc.  Then there is your    technique which  for some people involves a great deal of dramatic pulling & pushing coupled to waving the bellows around  in the wind - this is OK if you must but uses a hUge amount of unnecesary energy  with absolutely no musical benefit!  Keeping the bellows as near closed as possible most of the time ( there are times when only a good extension will do!) and using the wrist rather than arm movement greatly reduces energy consumption without effecting the volume to any great degree.  The other cause of huge bellows movements is heavy ( & sometimes turgid) use of the bass - this is OK in small doses if you are doingit on purpose because it enhances the proceedings) but otherwise stick to lightly tapping the bass buttons &lifting fingres off between strikes to provide a good rhythm. Also , particularly in a long session consider playing treble only for some tunes - then the bellows need hardly moving atall!

so looking at my youtube videos what do you think is my problem?

george garside

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 11:46:38 AM »


Sara - I  will have a good look at them and come back to you

george
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ladydetemps

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Re: How do you keep a tune going?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2009, 02:12:19 PM »


Sara - I  will have a good look at them and come back to you

george

Thanks. :)

I think I may have to rest from any practicing tonight...
My arms feel like lead weights today and every time I go to type my shoulders ache.
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