Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Castagnari Bass Question  (Read 2474 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Don Bergland

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
Castagnari Bass Question
« on: July 28, 2017, 09:13:06 PM »

On a brand new Castagnari Brio, I pull out on a bass note, then quickly release the button. I hear a strong mechanical "twanging" sound as an after effect. Should this occur?

This can be viewed in a video here - https://youtu.be/RmJvVE1AE20

It doesn't happen on all buttons. Just a few of them.

Thanks
Don
Logged

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9111
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 09:21:33 PM »

That is normal, the sound you can here is the that of the reed carrying on vibrating after the air flow stops but, as there is no air passing, no note is being sounded. You can only really hear it when not actually playing tunes so don't worry.

Don Bergland

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 09:28:57 PM »

The sound you can here is the that of the reed carrying on vibrating after the air flow stops but, as there is no air passing, no note is being sounded.

Hi Lester:

I appreciate your response and your wisdom. Why does this happen with some reeds and not with others? There are 3 notes where this happens very loudly. The other notes are silent after releasing the button. I have several other accordions and this is the first time I've encountered this issue.

Thanks
Don
Logged

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9111
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 09:31:28 PM »

The sound you can here is the that of the reed carrying on vibrating after the air flow stops but, as there is no air passing, no note is being sounded.

Hi Lester:

I appreciate your response and your wisdom. Why does this happen with some reeds and not with others? There are 3 notes where this happens very loudly. The other notes are silent after releasing the button. I have several other accordions and this is the first time I've encountered this issue.

Thanks
Don

Depends on the weight of the reeds, at a guess (educated), the low bass reeds that make this sound have large tip weights on the reeds to achieve the required pitch.

Don Bergland

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 09:38:29 PM »

Depends on the weight of the reeds, at a guess (educated), the low bass reeds that make this sound have large tip weights on the reeds to achieve the required pitch.

Thanks for the information, Lester. I always appreciate your educational style.
Logged

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 09:24:49 AM »

Depends on the weight of the reeds, at a guess (educated), the low bass reeds that make this sound have large tip weights on the reeds to achieve the required pitch.

Thanks for the information, Lester. I always appreciate your educational style.
Lester is quite right and his photos illustrate the size of the big bass reeds with their brass weights well.

However, an additional factor is if there are vinyl valves on some of the larger reeds instead of leather (as shown in Lester's photo). This makes for a noisier 'after-twang' especially if the reed tongues happen to contact the valve as the air flow stops. What seems to happen is that the valve shuts almost immediately but the momentum of the reed tongue continuing to vibrate causes it to hit the valve. With a soft leather valve this contact noise is less than with a hard vinyl valve. Replacing the vinyl valve with a leather one definitely makes a difference in these cases.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13730
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 09:36:33 AM »

As Steve says, plastic valves can make more noise than leather.  I don't think this is the valve contacting the reed - that can happen, but is rare in a well tried and tested design and makes a very distinctive sound.  Large plastic valves can make a rasping noise on opening and closing all by themselves.  If the aftersound of the bass reed is more pronounced when plastic valves are fitted (I'm not convinced that it is) then it might be that the sound is absorbed to a lesser extent by smooth, thin plastic film than it is by leather.  I think that is sufficient explanation for what one can hear without having to invoke reed/valve contact.  Keeping my Occam's razor sharp.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2017, 11:30:10 AM »

Going back to the original post and having watched the video, I would say that the twang effect as demonstrated doesn't seem excessive. These sorts of after-twangs are rarely audible except at very close range, so generally only the player perceives it, not any listeners at normal distances.

Carry on playing and don't worry about it!!  :Ph
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Mike Carney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 701
  • In sunny Sheffield
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 01:13:29 PM »

Echoing Steve's comment I would say there is nothing wrong with it. Sounds fine, though I know I have at times been a little sensitive to some sounds that I have noticed. I listened to your clip on headphones after listening to my Laura bass notes and they sound like that if listen really close up. And my instrument has a lovely tone, as commented  many times by others. People listening don't hear those little after-note vibrations. Crack on with playing it and enjoying it!
M
Logged

Don Bergland

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2017, 04:16:50 PM »

I'm always appreciative of the wonderful wisdom offered at this forum, so, much thanks to all who provided opinions on this matter.

I've returned to some vigorous interaction with the Brio, and although the sound is still present, I'm trying to persuade myself that it is part of the lovely deep-end texture this instrument offers. I think I'm getting to the point where I may indeed have convinced myself.

Thanks
Don
Logged

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2017, 04:24:27 PM »

Don,
Like Mike, I too own Castagnari's and to me didn't sound anything out of the ordinary, in fact I was struggling to hear what you describe. All I heard was a very deep lovely bass!
Play it for a good while and then recap, see if it still bothers you or even if you notice it any more.
Every new box has it's own characteristics, it might be that it's just different from your previous box...and it does sound gloriously rich.
Good luck
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

diatonix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 615
Re: Castagnari Bass Question
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 07:35:36 PM »

It is definitely a valve "issue" associated with the lowest bass reeds and their usually relatively large brass tip weights. The noise can be reduced by stiffening the leather valve with a larger/broader steel spring ("contropelle") or by bending the existing one. But, as others have already pointed out, the noise in your instrument is still acceptable and I wouldn't worry about it.
In order to minimize this problem, in my own boxes I never use the German combi valves (leather+plastic) nor the ones made from some sort of leather substitute (vileda). I prefer the traditional Italian type: High quality leather with steel springs of suitable length and width.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 07:43:51 PM by diatonix »
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal