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Author Topic: Black Diamond  (Read 1360 times)

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george garside

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 12:28:07 PM »

I'm just trying to imagine a thirds apart system. So D/F# or G/B or C/E. it's too late in the day and I've been stripping and cleaning the reeds from a lovely old Hohner Verdi I...so I can't work it out.

Yes, I've been trying to imagine this too! I might experiment with a minor third apart system - D/F-natural comes to mind. I might see if I can temporarily replace the G-row reed block of a D/G box with an F-row reed block from a C/F box. The left-hand basses/chords will be wrong in part, but it might be worth doing just to explore what the right-hand side can do. Hmmm...  ;)

     you should have 4 keys covered?   at least.      F.C.G.D   .     a bit of cross rowing required,  a sort of half way house toward semi tone boxes .   the worse of both worlds maybe...brian..
E minor and G minor should be fairly straightforward, B minor and D minor feasible but a bit more awkward.
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playandteach

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 01:12:07 PM »

Why would you want to mess with your brain this way?
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Tamba

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 01:59:05 PM »

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too. JFK
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triskel

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2017, 03:30:02 PM »

Why would you want to mess with your brain this way?

"... to boldly go where no man has gone before."  ;)
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Rees

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2017, 03:51:51 PM »

Why would you want to mess with your brain this way?


There would be some crazy right-hand chords in there. I may have to try this just for a laugh.

D/F sessions might even take over from flat sessions. Hmmm ...............
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2017, 08:31:09 PM »

Erm, I was only joking guys...Guys?

So what could the basses look like?


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bellowpin

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2017, 09:19:45 PM »

Why would you want to mess with your brain this way?


There would be some crazy right-hand chords in there. I may have to try this just for a laugh.

      how about A / C ,   a tone higher??   might be more "English centric"  ??       we are getting way off topic !     just a mental exercise / pipe dream..     brian..

D/F sessions might even take over from flat sessions. Hmmm ...............
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Rees

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2017, 09:30:47 PM »

Erm, I was only joking guys...Guys?

So what could the basses look like?

Full 120 Stradella  ;)
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2017, 04:28:22 AM »

D/F is not an entirely unknown combination. For strictly up-and-down-the-row players (and there are a few around, at least in Oz), I have re-reeded several Ericas to D/F to accommodate long time owners of G/C boxes who wanted other specific key availability (the most commonly used keys here being F, C, G and D), but didn't fancy cross-rowing on a semitone apart system, or having their existing melodeons changed or replaced. Basses were also modified to fit the usual 3 chord trick relating to each row.

Some years back, the local Hohner agent imported a number of A/C boxes too, in response to inquiries from D/G owners. Unfortunately, the basses were in A/D (go figure...) which I had to fix up for their new owners.

While I was not terribly enamored with the idea of these tunings, and their limitation was obvious to me, I couldn't really see any value in declining such commissions and was always happy to undertake non-standard fingerings. (A G/A Club conversion was an interesting one I remember, which made a bit of sense at the time.....a sort of back to front Chemnitzer)

Apologies for just slightly off topic.... :-\
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 04:32:48 AM by Malcolm Clapp »
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Rees

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2017, 09:45:48 AM »

I've converted a Double Ray to D/C for a local gipsy musician who wanted to play The Bluebell Polka without learning the B/C system!
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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triskel

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2017, 10:04:14 AM »

I've had bad thoughts about converting a G/C to G/D, which makes a bit of sense because it'd then be in Anglo-concertina system and the G row would be nice and low, not all high and squeaky...  ;)
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Rees

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2017, 10:27:08 AM »

I've had bad thoughts about converting a G/C to G/D, which makes a bit of sense because it'd then be in Anglo-concertina system and the G row would be nice and low, not all high and squeaky...  ;)

Dave Roberts (early Blowzabella) played a G/D but his G row was the standard high one.
Much confusion at the Castagnari factory!
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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triskel

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2017, 11:44:33 AM »

I've had bad thoughts about converting a G/C to G/D, which makes a bit of sense because it'd then be in Anglo-concertina system and the G row would be nice and low, not all high and squeaky...  ;)

Dave Roberts (early Blowzabella) played a G/D but his G row was the standard high one.

Yes, I knew Dave in the '70s (pre-Blowzabella days, also Jon Swayne and Sam Palmer) in East London, though I never played his Hohner which (if I remember rightly) I was told had been converted from B/C by a previous owner.

And, come to think about it, you would need the low G row on the INSIDE, with the D row closest to the player, to be Anglo-concertina system. I was only on my first cup of tea and not fully awake when I wrote that...   ;)

Anyway, I've a D row on all my other boxes (C#/D, D/D# and single-row D) and don't really need to create another freak. I think the G/C could finish up as a G/G# yet!
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2017, 01:21:23 PM »

(A G/A Club conversion was an interesting one I remember, which made a bit of sense at the time.....a sort of back to front Chemnitzer)
Did you dot the reeds around randomly like the layout of a Chemnitzer?   ;)

Rob
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: Black Diamond
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2017, 04:29:20 PM »

(A G/A Club conversion was an interesting one I remember, which made a bit of sense at the time.....a sort of back to front Chemnitzer)
Did you dot the reeds around randomly like the layout of a Chemnitzer?   ;)

Rob

The top row and the extremities, yes. >:E  >:E  Well, not quite as "random" as the Chemnitzer. More akin to the 7 button club inside row lay out, crossed with the top row of a 38 button anglo, i.e. accidentals plus a reversal or two.

And there is a (sort of) logic to (part of) the two main rows of the Chemnitzer, though I didn't know that at the time as I'd never played one; it was only later, when I got to own a Chemnitzer, that I realised it was reasonably close to what we'd achieved. If I knew then what I know now, I think I could have made a fair attempt at playing it, though it made little sense to me at the time. 

The fingering was worked out by the customer, with just a little input from me, mainly resulting from the difficulties of mounting certain sized reed pairings in the same chamber; I don't know whether he was aware of the Chemnitzer fingering himself.

So I can't be held totally responsible for releasing this Frankenstein into the wild.... I was only following orders, M'Lud.

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