Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt  (Read 543 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

robotmay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 756
    • Good Afternoon, Robot

<---

Paaah, that'll teach me for gluing things together late at night. I'm not even certain this is the first time I've done this :|bl
On the plus side, this time I was experimenting with some of that Titebond liquid hide glue, and I've managed to pull them all back off by rinsing it with some water. The leather might even be salvageable as it doesn't seem to have actually sustained damage after I washed the glue out, but it'll probably be a few days until it dries (sandwiched underneath a laptop as a weight at the moment to prevent curling).

This was the nicest leather/felt I have too, but hopefully I still have enough to posh up this Bb/Eb Erika ;D

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4932
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 08:17:41 AM »

The leather might even be salvageable as it doesn't seem to have actually sustained damage after I washed the glue out, but it'll probably be a few days until it dries (sandwiched underneath a laptop as a weight at the moment to prevent curling).

I would be tempted to not weight it down other than perhaps very lightly, so as not to compress the felt/leather too much. If it curls, it may yet still be useable because re-fixing to the pallets (the correct way round!) should force it to become flat again.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

GPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 08:30:09 AM »

You're not the first, and you won't be the last!  I have a Hohner 2915 whose pallets have been refaced at some time felt side out. When I got it I was inclined to strip them and redo them right way round, but in fact they work perfectly well, so until they need doing again I decided to leave them. Be interesting to see how long that is.........

Graham
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch undergoing a rebuild. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 000-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7080
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 09:06:11 AM »

Yep, got that t-shirt
Logged
Melodeon Repairs - Website - Facebook
Lester's Tune-a-Day Blog
Hohner Melodeons
Made in Germany
Improved in Wendover

robotmay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 756
    • Good Afternoon, Robot
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 08:14:31 PM »

The leather might even be salvageable as it doesn't seem to have actually sustained damage after I washed the glue out, but it'll probably be a few days until it dries (sandwiched underneath a laptop as a weight at the moment to prevent curling).

I would be tempted to not weight it down other than perhaps very lightly, so as not to compress the felt/leather too much. If it curls, it may yet still be useable because re-fixing to the pallets (the correct way round!) should force it to become flat again.

Turns out it actually isn't curling much at all due to the thickness of this stuff, so it's now just sat on a box to dry out (:)

I have finished cutting and gluing the treble side! Just need to reattach them to the arms now. As I'm already using this liquid hide glue, I think I'll try to stick them on using a small bit of material like they were originally. Last time I did it with hot glue it made quite a mess ;D

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4932
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 01:57:04 AM »

I have finished cutting and gluing the treble side! Just need to reattach them to the arms now. As I'm already using this liquid hide glue, I think I'll try to stick them on using a small bit of material like they were originally. Last time I did it with hot glue it made quite a mess ;D
Here's a tip which I got from Martyn White (melodeon restorer) to attach the pallets using the traditional linen disks method:

You need some linen, e.g. from an old linen hankie or shirt. Soak the material in a dilute solution of PVA glue and water (about 25% glue to 75% water should be fine; it's not too critical). Smooth it out flat and hang it up to dry. The dilute glue stiffens the linen and allows you to cut out disks using a leather punch or even just scissors without the material collapsing into wrinkles. You can then use the disks to fasten the pallets to the pallet arms in the traditional way. You could use either undiluted PVA glue to do this, or else hide glue, if you want to remain more authentic.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1088
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 07:11:21 AM »

Or...buy some 'mull'..it's like v stiff linen and used in book binding making. It is perfect for lining grilles too. It is v cheap.
Like this'n here....
http://store.bookbinding.co.uk/store/product/12287/Mull-No.4/

Also..on the subject of discs of linen. I've seen strips of cloth and little oblong strips of leather (e.g. On a Hohner PAs). They work just as well. It also depends on if you have the time and inclination to make/stick little discs on. Pallets can also be held on with wax (super fast and easliy reversible) and hot glue (same). Yesterday I repadded a 35 key Hohner. When it came to the decision on whether to spend an additional hour or two making and attaching pads, I decided against. But then I wasn't using animal glue either.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 07:23:29 AM by RogerT »
Logged

malcolmbebb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2196
  • In dampest Dorset, on the soggy south coast.
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 07:12:30 AM »

As a thought though, if you don't need the authentic round look, just cutting the cloth into squares is an option.
Logged
Dino BPII. My wife seems to have claimed the Liliput.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire."

robotmay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 756
    • Good Afternoon, Robot
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 09:39:33 AM »

Thanks for the tips guys! I did try cutting bits of material myself and it did not go especially well, so in the end I reused the original round bits I took off a few days ago. This whole instrument is in amazing condition, and even the little disks were in a good state. I flexed them a bit to unstiffen them and then glued them, and myself, to everything  ;D

I'll let you know how they hold up, but so far they seem really solid. Now to bend all the key levers into position, which is quite a bit harder on these old levers than when I did the same on Emmanuel's course.

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1088
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 10:54:50 AM »

Um..my experience with getting air tight pallets is:
Re-leather pallets, *position* them on the levers so they line up, don't foul each other. But don't glue them at this point.
Adjust levers to get even keyboard,
Check for air gaps by holding up to bright light (you'll be surprised..there are always one or two tiny gaps).
After all this...glue on pallets.
I have never been able to attach pallets, then adjust levers, and still have it air tight, or for that matter, adjust levers and still have air tight pallets ( though..if you are pulling the button upwards..it's ok...if you try and lower a button, it's not). I tried and tried but have never managed it. The tiniest change in the angle of the lever means the pallet won't sit flat. One exception is if you have floating pallets or very thick squishy mousse layer under the pallet.
I did once manage to get a *sort* of air tight pallet set on a box where the pallets were soldered to the levees...but it's very tricky. Just thought I'd mention in case you find it leaks after you have adjusted the levers. I mean, it might not. But if it does the above sequence works around the issue.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 10:59:18 AM by RogerT »
Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9875
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 11:19:03 AM »

Completely agree.  If you have glued the pallets on but don't have the mechanism in place then take the pallets off again, fit the mech, then position and glue the pallets as Roger describes.    It will take you far less time this way, and the result will be better.
Logged
Theo Gibb

Day job: The Box Place. Follow me on Twitter and please like my Facebook page
Night job: Sunniside Up! Ceilidh Band

robotmay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 756
    • Good Afternoon, Robot
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 11:32:15 AM »

Thanks guys (:)
At the moment the two I've adjusted seem to sit exactly the same on the upper arm. I've been adjusting these by bending the lower arm slightly upwards, and due to the design of these arms I don't think it should affect the upper part, but you guys have done this a lot more than me. One of the reasons I decided to go with hide glue this time (aside from having a bottle of the stuff going out of date) was so that I can undo any bad decisions fairly easily :|bl

I should grab my D/G Erika back off my friend as I can use microbot's conversion of that as a reference point to see if I'm doing anything daft.

robotmay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 756
    • Good Afternoon, Robot
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 06:17:41 PM »

Button alignment is mostly done! It went largely smoothly, but I am having trouble with the accidental row. The levers are very short and very tough to alter, and the keys are currently being kept slightly depressed by the top keyboard plate (the top of the holes is touching the accidental row buttons). Any tips on what to do for this? I could file out the holes a bit, but that feels a bit hacky. There might be movement to move the accidental mechanism up by about 2mm, which would then perhaps mean the buttons could be altered downwards instead?

I've started shifting the reeds around too, and I think I've got one row figured out now. I can't decide whether to use plastic or leather valves, however. I do like keeping things authentic but I'm curious to see if the plastic ones make it more responsive (without annoying slapping noises). I guess I could try both and see which feels better, but I'd be interested in anyone's opinions.

I'm also not planning to tune this myself, so would it in fact make more sense to have it valved by whomever I send it to for tuning? My previous efforts went fairly well but it'd be a waste to do the whole instrument only for it not to be good enough for a decent tuning job (:)

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1088
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 07:52:31 AM »

Personally I'd prefer to do all the reed work - valving/fixing to block etc myself. It isn't rocket science but it is easy to mess it up in small ways and take longer to undo than do right the first time around. But this is a personal preference. Other fettlers may not agree.

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9875
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Guess which idiot stuck the pallets to the leather instead of the felt
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 08:34:59 AM »

I do agree Roger.  I've done tuning for people who have done their own valves and wax.  Sometimes it's fine, sometimes not.
Logged
Theo Gibb

Day job: The Box Place. Follow me on Twitter and please like my Facebook page
Night job: Sunniside Up! Ceilidh Band
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.