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Author Topic: If something is played too fast for your taste ... why not try the next thread?  (Read 2540 times)

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Myndmusic

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I hesitate to open the floodgates here in tackling that old 'speed' chestnut, but I just wanted to appeal to Forum members not to jump to their keyboards to sound-off about someone playing 'too fast' - whatever that means.

Once again, today we have a lovely clip of an Irish musician posted, self-evidently showing off, but he is clearly a master so, why not?  And almost immediately, people jump in saying it is too fast to make sense to them.

Can we just stop, think and either appreciate, or move on if it really doesn't do anything for you and leave to others who might enjoy it without negativity infecting the thread?
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Sorry but I am as entitled to have and air my viewpoint as anyone else. Assuming I am allowed to disagree with your post.
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GPS

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I hesitate to open the floodgates here in tackling that old 'speed' chestnut, but I just wanted to appeal to Forum members not to jump to their keyboards to sound-off about someone playing 'too fast' - whatever that means.

Once again, today we have a lovely clip of an Irish musician posted, self-evidently showing off, but he is clearly a master so, why not?  And almost immediately, people jump in saying it is too fast to make sense to them.

Can we just stop, think and either appreciate, or move on if it really doesn't do anything for you and leave to others who might enjoy it without negativity infecting the thread?

I'm with Lester. I didn't say no-one else should like it, I just said it did nothing for me.  I don't see that as negativity - it's a neutral comment. If it floats your boat, fine; We don't have to agree on everything to remain friends.......

Graham
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mory

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Let's try an experiment then shall we? suppose a post appeared featuring a Morris player for example and then all these derogatory remarks appeared like "to slow can't feel the rhythm"  "boring" "ruining a good tune" not my opinion necessarily, just making a point. Would you feel comfortable or would you guys start crying foul? lets try it shall we.
THEO can you adjudicate wether it's OK to be derogatory towards music posted here please and if so can we have it so what's good for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Of course this would never happen, because most of those that follow Irish music or just appreciate the pure skill level involved would never resort to such insulting behaviour and generally exhibit a level of tolerance that doesn't seem to be shared by some from other musical backgrounds.
A few years back during one of these sort of things I received what could only be described as " internet abuse" in a completely anti social manner via personal messages from someone called malcombeed accusing me of all sorts during their rant, finishing with "and don't try to reply because your blocked" a troll accusing someone of trolling, hysterical but very distasteful none the less. Is this the sort of bigoted attitude that we want here on this lovely forum? I ask you. So please exhibit some tolerance, there's nice people. All the Best mory After all I'm entitled to my viewpoint same as everyone else, right?
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Stiamh

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Melodeonista baiting game:

1. Post video on mel.net of someone - ideally less than half the average age of members, preferably Irish - playing tunes (must be Irish) with great facility at warp speed. If he or she is having fun, that is a bonus.

2. See how long it takes for comments along the lines of "unmusical", "pointless", "does nothing for me" to appear.

I think the most recent case may have set a record.

george garside

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I too am with Lester and provided nobody gets insulting towards other members  it is absolutely fine to disagree  and to provide your reasons for so doing.  'Melodeonism'  is indeed a broad church  and what is right for one is perhaps no so for another .Stating your view should not be misinterpreted as an insult  -  just a bit of healthy banter and that , as far as I am concerned, is absolutely fine.

george
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malcolmbebb

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A few years back during one of these sort of things I received what could only be described as " internet abuse" in a completely anti social manner via personal messages from someone called
malcombeed
accusing me of all sorts during their rant, finishing with "and don't try to reply because your blocked" a troll accusing someone of trolling, hysterical but very distasteful none the less. Is this the sort of bigoted attitude that we want here on this lovely forum? I ask you. So please exhibit some tolerance, there's nice people. All the Best mory After all I'm entitled to my viewpoint same as everyone else, right?

If you're referring to me, mory, it's malcombebb. Please get it right.

Malcolm
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GPS

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Let's try an experiment then shall we? suppose a post appeared featuring a Morris player for example and then all these derogatory remarks appeared like "to slow can't feel the rhythm"  "boring" "ruining a good tune" not my opinion necessarily, just making a point. Would you feel comfortable or would you guys start crying foul? lets try it shall we.


 I'd be absolutely fine with that - as I said, we don't all have to agree on everything to be friends, and just saying something doesn't appeal to me  personally doesn't imply it's intrinsically "bad" or substandard. Again personally, I absolutely loathe even the smell,let alone the taste, of Marmite, yet millions of people love it. There's room for all tastes, and if you like it, that's fine. Expressing a divergence of taste isn't in any way "derogatory" - just horses for courses. Relax, lighten up -  if we all liked the same things just think how boring THAT would be.

Graham (sorry if my ageing hippyism's showing through.....)
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boxcall

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My cousin posted this on FB yesterday, a Buddha post.
May or may not be useful?

T = is it True?
H = is it Helpful?
I = is it Inspiring?
N =is it Necessary?
K = is it Kind?

I know I'm guilty of offending some, but I'm working to change that.
I THINK we all could at times, seems to be an internet thing most often.

Friends treat each other with kindness and yes sometimes with constructive criticism when necessary.
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playandteach

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I've been quick to take offense in the past - something about a tune of mine being ok if someone could fix it (I know that isn't how it was intended) and really I wish I'd found the pause button before replying.
On the other hand I would have busy fingers if I made a comment every time I heard a wide tremolo (because it is an uncontrollable reaction to stop youtube clips immediately I hear one, - I really can't listen to them).
I suppose this thread is requesting avoiding a thumbs down type of comment. I agree with the spirit of that, though I think if the posts had been further down the thread they wouldn't have drawn the eye. Maybe it was the 'drowning the kitten at birth' aspect that upset myndmusic.
For what it's worth, I didn't find the comments of speed over musicality offensive or inappropriate. Although I found the playing itself impressive and highly appropriate for the context. And worth bringing to the forum's attention.
Do we comment more openly here than on youtube for example? Could we take a straw poll of people who have thumbed down melodeon videos on youtube? I've avoided it for obvious reasons that it hurts when people thumb my videos down.
I did get one very fine private comment from someone who thought that one upload wasn't up to scratch, but he did it nicely and not publicly.
On the other hand, I once tried to PM a comment to a melnetter with suggestions, and suspected it still caused offence (not you Clive on the Bal de Marine video!)
I guess most of us are more fragile than we let on. Eggshells. I'd hate threads to be the elephant in the room, though. If people are thinking it, then maybe someone should say it. Sorry, I didn't mean this to ramble, it is harder than I thought.



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smiley

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Thanks for the THINK acronym boxcall. Sometimes its just the way we phrase our replies that rankles others.

I try to avoid typing out a reply in haste, and after reviewing my motivation for the post then I'm just as likely to hit <delete> instead of <post> 

There must be some interesting research looking at predicting personality types from the contents of their posts in online discussion boards. There are times reading Melnet when I imagine I'm sitting in a comfy chair listening to a roomful of my favourite eccentric uncles in forthright conversation with their whiskey and pipe in hand.

[I'm the type that's never given a 'thumbs down' on a youtube video]
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Grape Ape

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What I don't understand is how good playing of all types cannot be appreciated.  Since picking up the box I have even come to appreciate the happy dappy (once all sounding the same) polkas that first caused me to pick up the box in rebellion (i live outside Cleveland- for those that don't know what I am talking about google Cleveland style).  I am not particularly partial to Morris music, and yet I am curious about, have started threads seaking to learn more about it, and listen to it and have learned to appreciate it through understanding.  I long ago came to similar conclusions regarding music in general.  The genre does not define whether I like it or not.   The ability, the creativity, the uniqueness, and the passion are what define good music for me.  This can happen (or not) in folk music, country western, rock, pop, rap, speed metal, hip and trip hop, punk, shoe gazing, classical, and every gendre not mentioned.  I think the op feels, and I can see why, that the comments were overly dismissive of an entire genre. 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 11:37:39 PM by Grape Ape »
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As a general principle the following should help.

If someone posts some music that *you* don't like then it's perfectly valid to say so.  You are describing your own response to the music.  If you say that music is too fast/too slow/ and therefore it is rubbish that is not ok. Each persons response to the music is what it is. 

A wise musician once taught me that there are two types of music - music I like, and music I have not yet learned to like.
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Theo Gibb

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Tone Dumb Greg

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Gosh! This is nearly as exciting as the average post on the session. Can we have a month long barny on playing from the dots next, please?

Just for the record, I can't see anything wrong with someone offering their two pennyworth on the tempo, so long as it's done in the best possible taste.

When I'm playing if I start a tune it will be how I like to play it and I'll drop out if someone insists on imposing their tempo (although I do rather like playing stuff accelerando, once in a while).

If someone else starts a tune I'll follow it at their tempo, if I can. If I can't I'll listen politely or go and buy a pint.

When I listen to British Dance Music music I like it played fairly briskly, but I do find "virtuoso" playing at a lightning rate gets  tedious as quick as it's played, even if it is technically competent.  Young Irish people have been the keenest on this for a long time, but young people, generally, seem to be catching the affliction. It's fine. It's what they enjoy, but I don't find it interesting or particularly musical, even if they are much better musicians than me. Doesn't hurt to say so.
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Interesting debate. On the whole I like to hear dance music played for dancing and other clips clearly show how well this musician can do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFMtNzWN_oQ. I suspect that this is a party piece and as such is good fun and not to be taken too seriously. On the question of should we criticise of not, for me it depends on who the performer is. My attitude to a professional player is different to an enthusiast. While I hope I would never be rude, I would perhaps be more forthright in expressing my views of professionals! Enthusiasts can do what they like, because they are not expecting anyone to pay to listen. Professionals are setting themselves up as being outstanding and so should expect to be held to higher standards. 
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richard.fleming

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There should be a special place where posts like these above could be sent by the administrators when people start chuntering. Any post with the words 'Irish' and 'too fast' could be sent there automatically.
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squeezy

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People can say what they like and they frequently do!

My suggestion would be if you see a video clip of someone playing a tune that you think is just a little too fast or over-ornamented for your liking (even if it is technically brilliant) then you should say so and also upload an example of yourself playing the tune a little slower for us all to see how much better the tune could be!

That should sort the wheat from the chaff!
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When I'm playing if I start a tune it will be how I like to play it and I'll drop out if someone insists on imposing their tempo (although I do rather like playing stuff accelerando, once in a while).

If someone else starts a tune I'll follow it at their tempo, if I can. If I can't I'll listen politely or go and buy a pint.

I agree with Greg. Underlying his comment is the principle that one should play a tune in a session at the tempo that the person starting it sets. Sometimes it is played faster than I would do and this sometimes leads, in my opinion, to a loss of musicality and expression, even though the musician may be playing the tune competently. In such a situation, the choice should be to follow at the pace he or she has set, to sit and listen or to go to the bar/toilet.

However, when a tune is started more slowly than some people are used to playing it, I wish they would respect the speed at which it was started rather than speed it up to their own pace. Imposing your own pace on a tune somebody else started is just bad manners. A tune I enjoy playing is Chain Cotilion (a.k.a. The Sussex Cotillion). I play it at a stately tempo, but at both Sidmouth and Whitby, each time I started this tune, others cranked up the tempo well beyond that at which I started it. On one occasion at Whitby, I just threw my hands up in frustration and stopped playing. I have no objection to others starting this and other tunes faster (or slower) than I would do, but I wish people would respect the speed at which it was started. If they don't like the tempo, then I would rather that they didn't play the tune rather than hijack what somebody else has started.
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mory

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People can say what they like and they frequently do!

My suggestion would be if you see a video clip of someone playing a tune that you think is just a little too fast or over-ornamented for your liking (even if it is technically brilliant) then you should say so and also upload an example of yourself playing the tune a little slower for us all to see how much better the tune could be!

That should sort the wheat from the chaff!

Brilliant  8)  this should be enshrined in the please read before posting section.
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Julian S

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People can say what they like and they frequently do!

My suggestion would be if you see a video clip of someone playing a tune that you think is just a little too fast or over-ornamented for your liking (even if it is technically brilliant) then you should say so and also upload an example of yourself playing the tune a little slower for us all to see how much better the tune could be!

That should sort the wheat from the chaff!

Brilliant  8)  this should be enshrined in the please read before posting section.

Like it. However, given my ability and technical competence I'll just go to the bar - as is often the case in sessions ! :|glug
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