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Author Topic: First attempt at box fettling  (Read 2460 times)

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RogerT

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2017, 04:14:46 AM »

It's ok though if you use wax instead of glue...(:)

invadm

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2017, 03:45:38 PM »

I don't know how to measure bellows, so I am baffled, but these seem to be the same size as my old bellows. So does anyone think they's fit?

Sir John

http://www.cgmmusical.co.uk/CGM_Musical_Services/Bellows_Tape.html#15
how far did you go with the bellows sir John? I have 2 extra of this bellows-new never used-( and they will fit on the the Koch)  and plenty of book binding cloth if you want to re-tape your old one- if you like the colour I have that is of course - I've used on 2 Koch's & they all look good. PM me if if you like.   
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2017, 03:56:26 PM »

Well I have exchanged emails with Igor, but I have not actually posted them to him. When you say you have same bellows, does that include covered frames etc?

SJ
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invadm

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2017, 10:21:51 PM »

I have same bellows as what Charlie offers for sale,  not the original Koch with wide frame.
the one with white stripes,it's not the same quality a bit stiff but cheap £50 :)  Igor's make much better ones have to say.
is your original bellow realy bad that can not be fixed or are you not up for the job?

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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2017, 09:43:22 AM »

Those are a different fit frame to the Koch I have.
The existing bellows are worn down past the binding, and the card is worn in consequence, they are split where they join the frames, and there is at least one metal corner missing, and another taped up with masking tape.

Sir John
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: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

Theo

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2017, 09:57:29 AM »

John the only bellows frames you can buy new and that will fit are Hohner.  If your existing frames are not damaged you just cut them off the old bellows, clean up and glue them onto the new.  It's not difficult.  You need a board and a heavy weight to clamp while the glue dries.
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invadm

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2017, 11:27:33 AM »

you will have to use your old frame regardless sir John,even if you buy a new set you still use the old frame.If the diamond gaskets on the folds are OK not not leaking rest of the bellow can be saved and new tape a few corners will bring it back to good shape for many more years.   
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2017, 04:03:01 PM »

Right, after an hiatus, due to having other things to do, I now have 2 bricks on my dining room table, and under them, are two rows of freshly glued pallets. I will let you know how that works out tomorrow, when I take the bricks off.


Sir John
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: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2017, 04:20:18 PM »

Right, after an hiatus, due to having other things to do, I now have 2 bricks on my dining room table, and under them, are two rows of freshly glued pallets. I will let you know how that works out tomorrow, when I take the bricks off.
I would advise against leaving the brick weights on too long. You risk compressing the pallet facing material too much, which is not a good idea. Depending on what glue you've used, if it's a contact adhesive, 15 mins ought to be plenty and if it's PVA then 30 - 60 mins should be enough.
I would leave the trimming/separating for a couple of hours longer though.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2017, 05:23:26 PM »

PVA states that it achieves full strength in 24 hours Steve? Am I misreading the destructions?

SJ
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: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2017, 05:30:12 PM »

PVA states that it achieves full strength in 24 hours Steve? Am I misreading the destructions?
That may be so, but (a) you don't need to keep it under strong compression for that long, and (b) 'full strength in 24 hours' might be appropriate if you were building a chair or a table or other load-bearing objects, but you don't need that sort of time for gluing pallet facing onto pallets. I've always found a couple of hours perfectly sufficient. 
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2017, 07:20:16 PM »

Right, all successfully glued, cut off the piece of felt/leather, and replaced in situ. I had cut discs of leather to use to hold the  pallets in place, but I now think they are too thick. I'm no going to use mull, and I see no reason that it needs to be round, so I shall cut myself lots of little squares to glue them on with instead. I reckon PVA again.
The buttons are now very low, so  I will need to adjust them. Anyway, I need to limit their travel as well, so all part f the same job, methinks


Sir John
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: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

RogerT

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2017, 07:27:09 AM »

Don't fix the pallets back on to the levers until after you have made button height adjustments. The lever springs will hold the pallets on and allow you to make adjustments and check for air leaks. Adjusting button height may mess up some of the button alignment within the keyboard holes, so you'll need to get all of that right first. Pallet fixing is the very last thing to do.

John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2017, 01:41:16 PM »

The box I am working on is an old pressed wood, and has a 1 piece wooden fingerboard. There is no room to insert  anything very much  into the slot to limit button travel, and still be able to slide the board back over the buttons. Is there a trick that I need to learn?


Sir John
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: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2017, 01:57:52 PM »

The quick answer is Yes!
Theo's method - assuming you wish to continue the laudable route of keeping the existing fingerboard - involves putting a piece of wood inside the main body underneath the treble mech to limit the travel at that end.
He has some pictures somewhere, I can't remember where, but I expect someone will be along shortly with the link.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2017, 02:07:01 PM »

Yes I saw that a while back Malcolm, but by putting said piece of wood in situ. I then can't slide the keyboard back over the buttons. Not enough space.

SJ
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I used to play by ear, but got into dire trouble.
Diarrhoea !



: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

Theo

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2017, 02:28:45 PM »

Maybe your piece of wood was too wide John, or not quite in the correct position. It should be placed so that the keyboard just touches the piece of wood once the keyboard is fully home.

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:07:11 PM by Theo »
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Theo Gibb

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folkloristmark

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2017, 05:58:28 PM »

I have done theo way no problems you can also put material felt leather padding uner the keys between them and the board. This is much easier if the back or front comes off the keyboard if not you nedd to get the knack of angling the buttons back bit fiddly. this is totally reversable, gives a nice feel and sometimes a little spring.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 06:00:11 PM by folkloristmark »
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2017, 02:16:32 PM »

OOPS !  I made a really stupid mistake this morning. I glued the refurbed bass pallets back, and when they were dryish, I happened to turn the baseboard round to look at the other side, and I found a bloody gap. Hadn't lined them up properly before fixing. I had pencilled a mark where the triangular chord pallets went, but not the others. They are much harder to remove and refit, when you have to work round the chord pallets I have now found. Won't do that again (I hope)

Sir John
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Diarrhoea !



: Liliputs C/F, D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C

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Re: First attempt at box fettling
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2017, 03:20:36 PM »

OOPS !  I made a really stupid mistake this morning. I glued the refurbed bass pallets back, and when they were dryish, I happened to turn the baseboard round to look at the other side, and I found a bloody gap. Hadn't lined them up properly before fixing. I had pencilled a mark where the triangular chord pallets went, but not the others. They are much harder to remove and refit, when you have to work round the chord pallets I have now found. Won't do that again (I hope)

Sir John

Sorry but the 'really stupid mistake' when doing pallets is to stick the leather side to the pallet rather than the felt side! Or so I've been told  :-[
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