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Author Topic: 8th of January on Melodeon  (Read 670 times)

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Willh

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8th of January on Melodeon
« on: September 05, 2017, 03:47:09 PM »

My apologies for changing horse mid-stream, but I've been invited to a music night with some friends in a few weeks and this tune is a favourite for the fiddle players.

Here are the dots:

X:587
T:Eighth of January, The
T:Battle of New Orleans, The
S:Nigel Gatherer
Z:Nigel Gatherer
L:1/8
M:4/4
K:D
de | "D"f2 fa fe d2 | "G"efed B2 Bd | "A"e2 ef edBA | "D "dBAF D2 :|
DE | F2 A2 A2 F2 | ABAF EDDE  | F2 A2 dBAF | "G"EDEF D2 :|]

Following on from Anahata's advice, I've tried to find a good push/pull relationship to cover the notes for the G chord, but so far without going out to the A row, I've not found a way to play this and make it sound right (with the chords included).

Should this be transposed to G instead?

Thanks for any and all advice.

Regards,

Will
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Will

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 04:55:09 PM »

My advice is to keep it in D. Putting the tune in G will make it too squeaky and the fiddlers probably won't like it.
Your version of the tune is slightly odd and different from the mainstream tune as far as I know it. Here's the tune how I play it. I've added the chords I would normally use on a D/G box.

There will be momentary passing notes where you can't use the 'correct' chord all the time - e.g. where there is a melody push note D against a shown pull chord of A. Don't worry about the A chord at that point. Either accept a momentary D chord or else leave out the LH chord altogether at that point.

One of the great things about a melodeon is the ability to use 'wrong' chords, and yet it still sounds OK. Don't worry about correct musical harmony theory too much. Just accept what comes out of the box. It will be fine.


X:1
T:Eighth of January, The
T:Battle of New Orleans, The
S:Steve
L:1/8
M:4/4
K:D
de | "D"f2 fa fe d2 | "A"efed "G"B2 Bd | "A"e2 ef edBA |1 "D"ddde f2 :|2 "D "dBAF D2 ||
DE |: "D"F2 A2 A2 F2 | ABAF "A"EDDE  | "D"F2 A2 A2 AF |1 AF"A"ED "D"D4 :|2 AF"A"ED "D"D2 |]


NB - the 'cajun' way of playing this tune would be to play it in the key of A using entirely (and only) the D-row of a D/G box, and just use the LH push D bass/chord and pull A bass/chord buttons. Again, just accept what comes out of the box. You get some great bluesy sounds!
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 06:03:48 PM »

Many thanks, Steve. I appreciate your help.

I'll work with your changes and see how I go.

And yeah, I'm going to have to learn to be more forgiving with the harmonies. :)

Will
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Will

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 07:28:04 PM »

Also, I don't know how exactly you are having difficulties with this, but your remark in the other thread about making the basses shorter and lighter may well apply again. I wonder if you're trying to play a whole bar at a time all in the same direction, just because the chord doesn't change? You can get a long way on a push-pull series of notes playing bass or chord only on the notes in the right direction (LH silent on the other notes) especially when the notes the fit the bass are on the beat, which as it happens they often are.

This isn't a tune I'd think of as having air management problems...

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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 08:47:49 PM »

This isn't a tune I'd think of as having air management problems...

This one is just a bit of a challenge to get the melody notes against the chords I'm used to playing.

I'm going to learn two versions: Steve's, with the melody as presented and slightly different chords than I'm used to and a slightly modified melody that uses the chords I'm used to.

A good practice in problem solving.

Thanks,

Will
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Will

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 10:05:04 PM »

| "G"efed B2 Bd |

I've tried to find a good push/pull relationship to cover the notes for the G chord, but so far without going out to the A row, I've not found a way to play this and make it sound right (with the chords included).
(On what kind of melodeon do you play this tune? A 2row D/G? A 3row A/D/G? A Club C/F?)

The note e exists only on pull on the D-row, wheres the G chord exists only on push.

Basically I see two options:

1. Take an e on push from another row, if you have one.  8)

2. Play another chord. In this measure the obvious choice would be to play A major on beats 1 and 2 and G major on beats 3 and 4. (It's no surprise, Steve did indicate this, too.)  (:)

Chord progressions in folk music don't exist on their own, but chords are derived on the fly from the melody. You can harmonize a tune a bit different every time you play the melody (even though you wouldn't venture out into complicated harmonies  :o ).
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Theo

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 11:55:29 PM »

There is a third option and that is to play nothing on the bass when you can't get the melody and bass in the same direction.  I'm learning a tune where this happens in several places where I can't play the bass I want on the first beat of the bar, so I just play beat 2 and 3.  Gives it a nice feel, sort if syncopated I suppose.
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 09:27:32 AM »

| "G"efed B2 Bd |

I've tried to find a good push/pull relationship to cover the notes for the G chord, but so far without going out to the A row, I've not found a way to play this and make it sound right (with the chords included).
(On what kind of melodeon do you play this tune? A 2row D/G? A 3row A/D/G? A Club C/F?)

The note e exists only on pull on the D-row, wheres the G chord exists only on push.

Basically I see two options:

1. Take an e on push from another row, if you have one.  8)

2. Play another chord. In this measure the obvious choice would be to play A major on beats 1 and 2 and G major on beats 3 and 4. (It's no surprise, Steve did indicate this, too.)  (:)

Chord progressions in folk music don't exist on their own, but chords are derived on the fly from the melody. You can harmonize a tune a bit different every time you play the melody (even though you wouldn't venture out into complicated harmonies  :o ).

I'm playing this on a 3-row A/D/G Corona II. It's very playable across all three rows without any problems (other than coping with the fingering across three rows) using the progression I'm used to, but trying to be true to the style, I'm wanting to keep it to just two rows if possible.

This is why I'm going to try both using Steve's chords and slightly altering the melody to allow me to use the chords I'm used to.

It's a good experiment and hopefully will teach me some good strategies for working with other songs.
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Will

Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 09:54:48 AM »

There is a third option and that is to play nothing on the bass when you can't get the melody and bass in the same direction.  I'm learning a tune where this happens in several places where I can't play the bass I want on the first beat of the bar, so I just play beat 2 and 3.  Gives it a nice feel, sort if syncopated I suppose.

When you get that like you want it, how about posting a recording? I'd be interested in hearing it.

Thanks,

Will
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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 11:01:10 AM »

Where are the chords you want use taken from, Will? If it's the G in the second bar you have a problem with, then a G over the first four notes doesn't sound right at all, to me, when I try it. An E(m) is...ok, but an A is better, as Steve has it. Then play the second half of the bar on the push on the G row, with G bass notes. Third bar go back to the D row.
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2017, 11:46:03 AM »

Where are the chords you want use taken from, Will? If it's the G in the second bar you have a problem with, then a G over the first four notes doesn't sound right at all, to me, when I try it. An E(m) is...ok, but an A is better, as Steve has it. Then play the second half of the bar on the push on the G row, with G bass notes. Third bar go back to the D row.

That's interesting, because all the renditions I'm used to follow a D -> G -> A -> D progression for the A section. For instance, I just snagged this from YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdfYVC4fDSw

Full band starts at about 51-52 seconds in. Watch the guitar player on the right. He's playing D on bar 1, G on bar 2 and A on bar 3 with a return to D on bar 4.

I'm not opposed to Steve's changes - they sound very interesting in fact - they just aren't what I'm familiar with. And that's a good thing. This is a great learning exercise for me. :D

Will
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Sebastian

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2017, 01:59:23 PM »

It's a good experiment and hopefully will teach me some good strategies for working with other songs.
Yes, you are right of course, that experimentating with what you have and looking how other people do it, is almost always profitable.  (:)

When you get that like you want it, how about posting a recording? I'd be interested in hearing it.
It would also be nice to see and hear you playing this tune. It could make it easier to answer your question more to the point.
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Sebastian

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2017, 02:05:51 PM »

slightly altering the melody to allow me to use the chords I'm used to.
Vade retro!  >:E  ;)
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Rees

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 03:49:47 PM »

This tune uses the pentatonic scale thus I would play it Cajun style.
In other words played in the key of D entirely on the G row. It will sound much more American that way.
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2017, 05:35:18 PM »

Quote
It would also be nice to see and hear you playing this tune. It could make it easier to answer your question more to the point.

I'm much too slow still to do that. :)

But as a side question, how long should it take a player to work out a tune? I have to say I've been playing this now with a new, almost entirely on the D row fingering and I'm still struggling to pull it all together.
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2017, 05:36:41 PM »

This tune uses the pentatonic scale thus I would play it Cajun style.
In other words played in the key of D entirely on the G row. It will sound much more American that way.

Oh, no! :D

Yet another way to approach this.

If you have a recording of you doing this, can you please share?

I'll post me playing "Buffalo Gals" and "Oh, Suzanna" if anyone would find that interesting.

Will
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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 06:02:38 PM »

But as a side question, how long should it take a player to work out a tune?

Some tunes go in in minutes but, for example, I have finally beaten Siege of Delhi into submission after ~25 years of off and on trying. Plus there are tunes which I still can't master  ;)
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 06:04:37 PM »

But as a side question, how long should it take a player to work out a tune?

Some tunes go in in minutes but, for example, I have finally beaten Siege of Delhi into submission after ~25 years of off and on trying. Plus there are tunes which I still can't master  ;)

Thanks, Lester. That's both depressing and inspiring. :D

I've changed gears and am currently working on your version of "Knockabout Polka". You certainly make it look easy. :)

Will
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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 06:19:08 PM »

I'll post me playing "Buffalo Gals" and "Oh, Suzanna" if anyone would find that interesting.
I would find it interesting, to see how you play the accordion. Because your 'conceptualisation' of music seems to be very different from mine.  (:)
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Willh

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Re: 8th of January on Melodeon
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 06:24:05 PM »

I'll post me playing "Buffalo Gals" and "Oh, Suzanna" if anyone would find that interesting.
I would find it interesting, to see how you play the accordion. Because your 'conceptualisation' of music seems to be very different from mine.  (:)

Abgemacht! (Deal!) :)

I'll make a short video of both tomorrow.

Where can I post them?
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