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[triskel]

How about a cheap 2-voice Scandalli, going cheap in Australia?

VINTAGE SCANDELLI ITALIAN MADE BUTTON ACCORDION ACCORDIAN WORKING OK

I see these quite a lot in Australia, and IMHO this model is simply the worst build quality ever to come out of an Italian factory.
(YMMD of course....)

Well somebody bought it, in record time, and there's usually a good sound in them.

You sure it wasn't you?

[Malcolm Clapp]

How about a cheap 2-voice Scandalli, going cheap in Australia?

VINTAGE SCANDELLI ITALIAN MADE BUTTON ACCORDION ACCORDIAN WORKING OK

I see these quite a lot in Australia, and IMHO this model is simply the worst build quality ever to come out of an Italian factory.
(YMMD of course....)

Well somebody bought it, in record time, and there's usually a good sound in them.

You sure it wasn't you?

No, definitely not me, Stephen!

OK, my comment, made after the listing closed incidentally, was probably a bit harsh. However, after a number of attempts over the years with these models to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, I have never been at all satisfied with the end result, but as I said, your mileage may differ.

It has been suggested elsewhere that this model was produced during, or just after the war, when both materials and skilled labour may have been in short supply, hence quality issues.

If I get time later, I'll post again with some of my perceived shortcomings of this model....

Good luck to the new owner :-)

[triskel]

Well somebody bought it, in record time, and there's usually a good sound in them.

You sure it wasn't you?

No, definitely not me, Stephen!

Now where's that "tongue-(very-firmly)-in-cheek"/leg-pulling/teasing smiley when I need it? Theo? 

No, me neither. But then, I do have a lovely pre-war Hohner 3515 2-voice (which Nielsen fettled for me) that I love, and a Paolo Soprani "grey box" one that I expect to be absolutely gorgeous when it's fixed, not forgetting the fabulous single-row Paolo Soprani "pepperpot" - so it'd have to be a pretty amazing one to tempt me to buy another...

And I have latterly succumbed to the Irish box players' belief that a 3-voice is "sweeter" than a 2-voice - and hence why I'm so happy to have bought both the Delfini and the Fipaccordion. and (on your recommendation) I'm even going to fix up that ugly (Scandalli-like) red C/C# Casali - though I'll be making some serious modifications to the grille that should enhance both the sound and the appearance of it (I have a cunning plan! )

[triskel]

Short of an identical instrument turning up one day with the actual maker's name on it, we can only compare similar features to try and establish who made boxes like the black, and now the brown, ones branded "Delfini" that have been discussed/seen in this thread so far (though images of other examples would be very welcome).

But Ildo Busilacchio seems to keep coming up as a likely contender for being their manufacturer, an impression reinforced by my finding a Busilacchio "Zaffiro" piano accordion for sale on Italian eBay (fisarmonica mogar busilacchio) that's covered in what looks very much like the same brown celluloid as the brown Delfini on DoneDeal (2 row diatonic accordion 4 voice), as well as having the same waterfall grille and distinctive black/silver/black piping as both diatonic Delfini examples.

[triskel]

And that's not all!

I came across images of a black "Circa 1950" Wilkinson's Excelsior 2 voice in BC that Scott Bellinger had sold, and was struck by several similarities - and whilst those Wilkinson's boxes were originally "Made in Württemberg" in the 1920s (by a firm you'll have heard of, called Hohner!), by the 1950s/'60s they were being made by Busilacchio.

Firstly, if you look at the treble-end profile (viewed from the top, or bottom) there's a distinct similarity in the shape.

Secondly, they all have similar external adjusters for the bass strap (only the original knurled circular adjusting nut has been lost from mine, whilst the bracket looks like it may have been replaced with a home-made one on the Wilkinson's).

Thirdly, the brown Delfini and the Wilkinson's appear to have the same strap brackets, with a circular mounting plate (my black one seems to have a few minor differences that suggest it may be very slightly earlier).

[triskel]

Fourthly, both the brown Delfini and the Wilkinson's have a row of three rivets on the plate between the buttons and the grille, holding on metal studs behind the plate that support the grille. The studs are also there, on the inside, on mine - but they must have been rivetted "blind" and the rivet heads covered over with celluloid. Such rivets/studs are an unusual and distinctive feature.

Fifthly, the seams where the celluloid is joined up, on the back of the boxes, are all in the same places, and the bellows pins are in the same positions in relation to them (except that 5 of the 8 bellows pins have been moved on mine - which I'll be rectifying).

[triskel]

Sixthly, the reed plates are marked with small notches made near the top centres of them, in all three boxes. (Not with diagonal lines in their corners, as would be more usual.)

Seventhly, the swivelling clamps that hold the reed blocks in place are cut from sheet brass and curled over, in the same style, in all three boxes.

You may find other similarities and, of course, there are differences...

But it all adds up, and says to me that "it was Busilacchio whatdunnit!"    (Or was it the butler, in the library, with the candlestick?  )

[boxcall]

I wonder why the seller thinks Scandalli made them?

Maybe it has something to do with Scandalli having had a piano accordion model in the mid-1930s named "Delfino"? ..

The person who has the advert on DoneDeal claims to have been in contact with Scandalli and
they apparently believe it to be one of theirs!

Quote from the advert;
"  I have been in contact with Scandalli the makers at Castelfidardo Italy and they think it was made around 1954 to perhaps 1958  at their old factory at Loreto, near Castelfidardo, Italy.  "

What are we to make of that?

I saw that, but wouldn't pay any heed to it. From my experiences of dealing with numerous accordion-making/dealing firms over the years I've found that there's never anybody who knows, or even cares, what the last generation were doing, let alone what went on in the firm's production 70 years (and more) ago, but they'll reply politely to enquiries from people, with guesses, even if they don't have a clue what they're waffling on about... (For that matter, Scandalli has changed ownership several times since WW2, and is now part of Suoni - as is Paolo Soprani.)

Even Hohner, who had a museum and a curator (who I met and corresponded with) couldn't answer what were to me very basic questions, whilst the way they're describing their own models these days makes it abundently clear that the present generation don't have a clue what is actually inferred by various long-established terms - like a one-row 4-stopper 114 cannot possibly be a "Wiener [Vienna] model" (though a 2915 "Pokerwork" most certainly is) and should be/always used to be termed a Deutsche/German model... 

The common denominator between Delfini and Scandalli is J. E. Dallas in London, who were major accordion importers and the Scandalli agents in the 1930s (and still were up until at least as late as 1964, because I have a catalogue dated that year). And, like I've already said, "Delfini" was one of three pseudo-Italian names that Dallas came up with in the 1930s for "house brands" (the others being "Casali" and "Alvari"), quite likely by simply changing the last letter of Scandalli's (by then obsolete) Delfino model to an i...

And I've also already mentioned a 1930's Delfini that we know was made by Bontempi, because it says so:

Interestingly, the eBay listing mentions that the reed blocks 'are stamped  "Made by Bontempi in Castelfidardo" ' (if only they all did that!) - a firm that was active from 1936 to 1952.

There have been lots, and lots, of cases of manufacturers/merchants/importers/dealers using fake/made-up Italian brand names, and there still are! A few that spring to mind would be "Galotta" (G. A. Schlott & Söhne in Klingental), "Martini" (Martin Walton in Dublin), "Jonelli", "Luciano" and (even!) "Soprani" (John Leslie in London), "Scarlatti" (which was Curry's own accordion brand in the 1930s, and more recently that of Hobgoblin/Gremlin), etc., etc., etc...

Hi Stephen,
I'm sorry to cut in to this tread but since you mention "Martini" and I see one for sale, it looks like a Hohner pokerwork 21/8. It appears to be in good condition price isn't to much and it is suppose to be in tune. It was sold by (J Edwards JNR. The square Tralee) at least that's what the tag on it states, I'm assuming C/C# since it does not say in the ad ( I'm going by a catalogue you posted in another thread) but I guess that could be wrong, I think it said others key also. So my question is are they any good? Some place in another thread it states they were made in GDR but your thread says Italy is there any way to tell? I'm just looking so I might not even buy it. Any info appreciated.
Thanks,
Michael

[triskel]

... I'm assuming C/C# since it does not say in the ad ( I'm going by a catalogue you posted in another thread) but I guess that could be wrong, I think it said others key also.

They may have only been available in Ireland in C/C# in the late 1950s, but they were certainly made later in B/C - and there could even be a little label on the back of the box saying H-C (German notation) to tell you so.

So my question is are they any good?

No, they're cheap boxes made for beginners.

Some place in another thread it states they were made in GDR but your thread says Italy ...

I wrote about both Italian and German boxes, "pseudo-Italian names" and "fake/made-up Italian brand names" - but I don't see any suggestion in that that "Martini" brand accordions were made in Italy.

Though importers' "house brands" can be made in more than one country, depending on the choice of the importer.

[boxcall]

Ok thanks
I most likely misread the post about where they were made and wasn't trying to put words in that you didn't post sorry. ( I think it was on the catalogue from the shop in Dublin that you posted, not your words, in another thread)
I kinda figure these were cheap beginners boxes but thought I'd check with the local expert
Moving on to the next window to shop

Back to the Delfini ---
I don't have anything to add but very interesting thread and good luck with the Delfini.

[triskel]

[Martini] ... ( I think it was on the catalogue from the shop in Dublin that you posted, not your words, in another thread)

Ok, found it, it was in that c.1957 Walton's price list:

CEILI BAND ACCORDIONS

601/1 21 keys with 8 bass, 2 sets of reeds, nacrolac finish, available in keys C/C# and D/D#   £7,,19s,,6d

610/1 21 keys with 8 bass, 2 sets of reeds, in key C/Cs, "Martini" (made in Italy)   £16,,16s,,0d

So at that point they were still using their older "Ceili Band" brand name on cheap GDR boxes, melodeons and concertinas, and "Martini" was being specifically applied to an Italian made box, and specially noted as such.

Which goes to illustrate what I just said about how:

... importers' "house brands" can be made in more than one country, depending on the choice of the importer.

But you specified that the "Martini" you were asking about "looks like a Hohner pokerwork 21/8" - so it had to be GDR...

[triskel]

... both the brown Delfini and the Wilkinson's have a row of three rivets on the plate between the buttons and the grille, holding on metal studs behind the plate that support the grille. The studs are also there, on the inside, on mine - but they must have been rivetted "blind" and the rivet heads covered over with celluloid. Such rivets/studs are an unusual and distinctive feature.

And I've now come across photos of two 10-key Busilacchio boxes, a red one and a black one, which show they have those three studs too. But I've only seen that done on boxes that were very evidently made by Busilacchio, and the Delfini ones - which strongly suggests to me that the latter were indeed made by Busilacchio, as I originally suspected.

[triskel]

And I've come across two more images, of 10-key Busilacchio boxes, that also display the three studs beneath the base of the grille:

[hickory-wind]

The BC Wilkinson's Excelsior I sold recently had the same 3 studs below the grill.

https://bellingersbuttonboxes.com/product-detail.php?prod_id=121

Scott

[triskel]

The BC Wilkinson's Excelsior I sold recently had the same 3 studs below the grill.

http://bellingersbuttonboxes.com/product/wilkinsons-excelsior-2-voice-in-bc/

 

It too was made by Busilacchio - whilst the brown 4-voice Delfini that's for sale on Done Deal seems to have been made between my black 3-voice Delfini and that Wilkinson's Excelsior, because it shares some features with the former, and some with the latter...

I came across images of a black "Circa 1950" Wilkinson's Excelsior 2 voice in BC that Scott Bellinger had sold, and was struck by several similarities - and whilst those Wilkinson's boxes were originally "Made in Württemberg" in the 1920s (by a firm you'll have heard of, called Hohner!), by the 1950s/'60s they were being made by Busilacchio.

[triskel]

Well here's another Delfini, just popped up on donedeal.ie today. ...

Here's the link:
https://www.donedeal.co.uk/keyboards-for-sale/2-row-diatonic-accordion-4-voice/16716475?campaign=3

I see Ronnie Mack still has it advertised there, four months later, having dropped it from €1,500.00 to €1,000.00, and then to €900.00. And tonight it's appeared on eBay - Delfini Accordion (1954) - for a Buy it now of £1,000.00. But he'll only ship it within the UK, which seems seriously self-defeating because it rules out the majority of his potential customers, but (after what I've found out about him) he probably has his own ("Norn Iron") reasons... 

Not that I recommend dealing with him, after my own experience of trying to, anyway. But it'll rebound on him because I'll have some craic out of that yet, with other people in the music trade - maybe over a pint at the Musikmesse in Frankfurt!

[triskel]

... tonight it's appeared on eBay - Delfini Accordion (1954) ...

I'm amused to see it described as a "Scandal" in the eBay listing, which it's getting to be at this stage, (rather than as a Scandalli - which it isn't), and sorry to see that he's still claiming the old Scandalli factory was at Loreto before it moved to Castelfidardo - after I pointed out to him 2 months ago that it was famously (30 km to the north) at Camerano.

Not that the box has anything at all to do with Loreto anyway - "Delfini, Loreto", as well as "Casali, Verona", were both made-up "house brands" of J. E. Dallas in London, and manufactured (from the 1930s through to the 1960s) by whoever was convenient at the time...

[boxcall]

This Frontalini looks similar to the boxes in this discussion but a three row
$250 price tag
Looks to be in good shape.

[triskel]

This Frontalini looks similar to the boxes in this discussion but a three row

You must be reading my mind, because I'm about to start a fresh thread dealing with the likes of the 2-row version of these Frontalinis, which are also to be found branded Scandalli. They're nothing to do with the Delfinis, but they were probably made nearby.

[boxcall]

This Frontalini looks similar to the boxes in this discussion but a three row

You must be reading my mind, because I'm about to start a fresh thread dealing with the likes of the 2-row version of these Frontalinis, which are also to be found branded Scandalli. They're nothing to do with the Delfinis, but they were probably made nearby.

I can remove this if it clouds this thread, I just thought it has some similarities with the look of celluloid and the finger board, not much else that I could point out. Are these Frontalinis similar in quality to Delfini, scandalli etc? Also when these company's merged did all the products produced get a Farfisa label or maybe depending on where it was being sold a different name?

Interesting Farfisa thread/ history I'll be interested to hear more. http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,21728.msg261387/topicseen.html#new