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Author Topic: History of Saltarelle?  (Read 24654 times)

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triskel

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2017, 05:43:11 AM »

I was busy with a festival over the weekend, but I've made some improvements to the Saltarelle Timeline tonight.

I'll get back to people about information they've offered over the next few days.
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Joel Summers

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2017, 02:05:06 PM »

Triskel,

Do you have any information on the Awen model?

Thanks!
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melodeon

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2017, 02:07:22 PM »

Stephen.. one possible correction...

The Connemara III I believe is 21 plus 5

The Connemara II is 23 plus 4..


I'll double check but believe this is correct.
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triskel

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2017, 03:08:47 PM »

Ah, thanks Jeff. Checking their website I see that it is (currently) 21 + 5, only that would have made it exactly the same as the Pastourelle III, which seems peculiar - I was certainly under the impression that the Connemaras were a 23-key + acc. version of the Pastourelle models, but maybe not in the case of the 3-voice (which I don't think I've ever seen), and wasn't designed for Máirtín O'Connor to play, like the 2-voice was).

More inconsistency I guess?  ;)
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Clive Williams

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2017, 03:13:31 PM »

I used to have a Connemara III in (I guess) about 1991 - it was one of the first to hit the UK, right after Brian Peters' one I think. It was a 21+5 3 voice, and directly equivalent to the Pastourelle III - also 21+5, but with a flat keyboard rather than the Pastourelle range's stepped keyboard. The Connemara II and the Pastourelle II are not as similar as the III models are; 23+4 vs 21+5 as you say. 

triskel

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2017, 03:58:02 PM »

Yikes, more inconsistency! (Why am I not surprised?) The Pastourelles sold in Ireland had flat keyboards, before they got renamed...

But to clarify, are you at all sure about the year, or that it was already called a Connemara III when you bought it Clive, since the catalogues/lists I've got name it as the Pastourelle III in 1991? Then again, it sounds like it could have been one of the first Connemaras to be made and might well predate "advertised" listings of the name.

I'd think the date of that instrument, or Brian Peters' one, could be a significant plot on the timeline.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 05:06:35 PM by triskel »
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GPS

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2017, 04:50:39 PM »

Some years ago I played a friend's Connemara II, and that was quite definitely 21+4; it was exactly similar to my Pastourelle except that the accidentals were reversed and it had a flat keyboard.  The plot thickens.........

Graham
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

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Rees

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2017, 07:05:46 PM »

triskel, I'll have a look through my old folders and see what I can find re 1980s catalogues, etc.
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Clive Williams

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2017, 10:32:20 PM »

Yikes, more inconsistency! (Why am I not surprised?) The Pastourelles sold in Ireland had flat keyboards, before they got renamed...

But to clarify, are you at all sure about the year, or that it was already called a Connemara III when you bought it Clive, since the catalogues/lists I've got name it as the Pastourelle III in 1991? Then again, it sounds like it could have been one of the first Connemaras to be made and might well predate "advertised" listings of the name.

I'd think the date of that instrument, or Brian Peters' one, could be a significant plot on the timeline.

Yes, 1991. A year after I started playing. I got it from Rod Stradling who was running Name Accordions with Alan Lamb at the time. I don't think I ever saw a catalogue, but around then Rod was playing the Nuage himself which he had just started importing and had the Connemara III which he had just got the first batch of in the UK at least, and he called it the Connemara then. I got the 2nd one; I think I read later that the 1st was Brian Peters' box, and you can see pics of Brian on it on some of his CDs which looked just the same as mine. This was the start of the Saltarelle 'Stirling' range of melodeons - flat keyboard dark wood finish boxes with metal grills, of which the Nuage, Connemara's and later the Nordsud were prominent members. Rod was also selling the Tramontane 14 bass Andy Cutting layout box at that stage though I don't think he had one around when I saw him to get the Connemara... but it was certainly available to order. I don't know if the Stirling range was Rod's idea or not... but it wouldn't surprise me.

Guy

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2017, 11:11:06 PM »



 This was the start of the Saltarelle 'Stirling' range of melodeons - flat keyboard dark wood finish boxes with metal grills, of which the Nuage, Connemara's and later the Nordsud were prominent members.

Ahh...more inconsistency. The Nordsud G/C/F I bought from Rod Stradling, which was (I think) the last instrument he sold when he was clearing out his instrument dealership, has a stepped keyboard and a wooden grille. I had another one from the Music Room for a while in A/D/G, and that was the same...

Lovely instrument, by the way-I still use mine regularly.

Cheers,
Guy
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Guy, in South Wales

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Theo

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2017, 11:13:35 PM »

Emmanuel Pariselle told me that he did some design work for Saltarelle in their early days, including the 14 bass Tramontane. He still plays this layout, though internally his is quite different, and builds the same design on his melodeon building courses.
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squeezy

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2017, 11:33:59 PM »



 This was the start of the Saltarelle 'Stirling' range of melodeons - flat keyboard dark wood finish boxes with metal grills, of which the Nuage, Connemara's and later the Nordsud were prominent members.

Ahh...more inconsistency. The Nordsud G/C/F I bought from Rod Stradling, which was (I think) the last instrument he sold when he was clearing out his instrument dealership, has a stepped keyboard and a wooden grille. I had another one from the Music Room for a while in A/D/G, and that was the same...

Lovely instrument, by the way-I still use mine regularly.

Cheers,
Guy

The Nordsud was always in the "collection centre-ville" as far as I know ... the 3 row instruments in the "stirling range" with a flat keyboard were the Cheviot and the Horizon
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Squeezy

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Guy

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2017, 11:44:01 PM »



 This was the start of the Saltarelle 'Stirling' range of melodeons - flat keyboard dark wood finish boxes with metal grills, of which the Nuage, Connemara's and later the Nordsud were prominent members.

Ahh...more inconsistency. The Nordsud G/C/F I bought from Rod Stradling, which was (I think) the last instrument he sold when he was clearing out his instrument dealership, has a stepped keyboard and a wooden grille. I had another one from the Music Room for a while in A/D/G, and that was the same...

Lovely instrument, by the way-I still use mine regularly.

Cheers,
Guy

The Nordsud was always in the "collection centre-ville" as far as I know ... the 3 row instruments in the "stirling range" with a flat keyboard were the Cheviot and the Horizon

Thanks Squeezy-I never knew which range it belonged to, as I just bought it as a "one-off" from Rod, and didn't know enough then to ask anything about it. I just liked the sound, feel and playability of it. Still do!

Cheers,
Guy
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Guy, in South Wales

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triskel

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2017, 04:02:38 AM »

triskel, I'll have a look through my old folders and see what I can find re 1980s catalogues, etc.

Thanks Rees, that could be a big help with the earlier models.

Yes, 1991. A year after I started playing. I got it from Rod Stradling who was running Name Accordions with Alan Lamb at the time. I don't think I ever saw a catalogue, but around then Rod was playing the Nuage himself which he had just started importing and had the Connemara III which he had just got the first batch of in the UK at least, and he called it the Connemara then. I got the 2nd one; I think I read later that the 1st was Brian Peters' box, and you can see pics of Brian on it on some of his CDs which looked just the same as mine.

As I've mentioned, I do have a Name Accordions "catalogue" (though I use the term loosely seeing that it's a very DIY affair, consisting of three photocopied sheets, stapled together in one corner), headed "RETAIL PRCES : SUMMER 1990" - which, like my 1990 Irish price list, describes the Connemara II, but still calls it Pastourelle II. Mind you, Name Accordions also described the Nuage in that list, but called it the "New Berry", whilst the Irish list already called it Nuage.

Quote
This was the start of the Saltarelle 'Stirling' range of melodeons ... I don't know if the Stirling range was Rod's idea or not... but it wouldn't surprise me.

Well Georges Roux certainly had a pretty shaky idea about "Sterling" seeing that the Irish price list is indicated as being in "Pond Sterling IRL" - a non-existant currency - instead of "Irish pounds" (IR£) or "punts"...  ::)
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Clive Williams

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2017, 10:13:41 AM »

The Nordsud was always in the "collection centre-ville" as far as I know ... the 3 row instruments in the "stirling range" with a flat keyboard were the Cheviot and the Horizon

Yes, you're right - my shaky memory :-) It was the Cheviot I was thinking of.

triskel

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2017, 08:02:43 PM »

Triskel,

Do you have any information on the Awen model?

Thanks!

Only that it's a brand-new addition to the range.
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triskel

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2017, 08:14:30 PM »

But to clarify, are you at all sure about the year, or that it was already called a Connemara III when you bought it Clive, since the catalogues/lists I've got name it as the Pastourelle III in 1991? Then again, it sounds like it could have been one of the first Connemaras to be made and might well predate "advertised" listings of the name.

I'd think the date of that instrument, or Brian Peters' one, could be a significant plot on the timeline.

Yes, 1991. A year after I started playing. I got it from Rod Stradling ... and he called it the Connemara then. I got the 2nd one; I think I read later that the 1st was Brian Peters' box, and you can see pics of Brian on it on some of his CDs which looked just the same as mine.

Maybe early '92 rather than '91 it seems, because I got onto Brian Peters and he's replied:

"I do have a very early Connemara iii (still doing sterling service but badly in need of an overhaul) but not quite as early as 1991.  I was still playing my Hohner Corona III on 'Seeds of Time' (actually recorded 1991 I think), and the Connemara only made it's debut on 'Squeezing Out Sparks', recorded in late 1992. I suspect I bought it in early 1992, but I can't find Rod Stradling's receipt to verify that."
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pgroff

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2017, 03:01:58 PM »

Hi all,

From the info shared so far it seems the earliest evidence posted for a Saltarelle Shamrock is dated 1998.

However, my Shamrock is dated internally 1996. It was originally sold by Len Killick and retuned by him shortly thereafter.

To recap, the Shamrock is a 4 voice  2-row box with 25 melody keys (inside row longer) and 12 basses; 4 stops on the melody side offer all the possible voicings and 2 stops on the bass side add/subtract the low basses and the thirds of the triads.

Mine is a dark brown wood finished model with the small tin butterfly logo, in C#D, voiced LMMH. The grille is bright chrome and the keyboard cover plate is aluminum with a black finish.

Unlike some more recent Shamrocks I've seen, the reeds don't have hammer marks (facets) on the rivets. The reeds in the later ones may have been upgraded in quality (see quotes below). The reeds in mine do sound great but are maybe a bit stiff in response. But the box hasn't been played much over the years.

I wrote to Len about this instrument when I went looking for some replacement reeds to change the bass layout, and he shared some interesting info about the instrument. I think he said it was made by Dino Baffetti, and definitely said that the reeds were assembled by them (quote below).  This is interesting because some lore I've heard suggested that the small butterfly logo Saltarelles were made by Serenellini.

Len's comments on the reeds (in mine), quoted from two emails:

"Hello Paul, Nice to hear from you, and that the Shamrock has found its way to you - I last heard of it recently in Berlin! I'm not too sure exactly where you are-but if the e-mail address means anything - Miami?
The reeds in the Shamrock were made in Italy, to change the basses any reputable Italian Tipo-A-Mano reed would be suitable. (The original reeds were made at Dino Baffetti works from component parts from the reed maker Cucini. They are a special production for the Saltarelle instruments)."

"[unlike your earlier Shamrock] most of the new high-end [Saltarelle] instruments now have A-Mano reeds."

"[ the reeds in the 1996 Shamrock] are Durale (sometimes called Super-Durale these days); as I said made specifically for Saltarelle. The component parts are exactly the same as TAM reeds from the same maker - just not hammered in the typical 3-hit pattern."

Hope this helps.

Maybe off-topic, but:  I really love this box despite its somewhat hefty size and weight. The stops offer all those "1 row LMMH melodeon" voicing effects but from both rows.  I've swapped in a few different bass/chord reeds, saving the originals. I also have the original metal grille but I wanted to open up the sound a bit and maybe tone down the chrome effect. So after some searching I located a vintage grille (from a small Lupinacci piano accordion ca 1920s made by Settimio Soprani) that's an excellent fit to the box, with no modifications needed to any of the original parts.  Aside from upgrading the reeds, the other mod I've often considered is to get a replacement keyboard cover plate machined, that's perforated near the grille, to let out even more sound from the outside C# row of buttons. This box has the "reversed" Saltarelle action so the pallets for the inside D row buttons are furthest from the keyboard and have the brightest sound; it's the outside C# button row that has a somewhat muted tone quality (as we often hear in 4 voice boxes from the pallets that open near the keyboard).

PG

Pics:
1) close up with replacement grille.
2) C#D Shamrock shown with original grille, compared with an O'Byrne DeWitt Paolo Soprani DC# and a Globe melodeon - all boxes with a D row, and all voiced LMMH. Obviously the Shamrock design extends the melody keyboard range and adds many basses, but IMO it continued a tradition of double octave voicing for a D box to be used in Irish music.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 03:26:53 PM by pgroff »
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gettabettabox

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2017, 12:26:37 PM »

Want!... no...need!
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pgroff

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Re: History of Saltarelle?
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2017, 06:39:10 PM »

Want!... no...need!

Hi gbb,

If that was in reference to the Shamrock, they do come up fairly often - but most seem to be in BC and often voiced LMMM. I've offered mine for sale occasionally when I needed the money and might do so again someday. Usually when I have to raise funds I try to sell the ones that are in the best condition - the only way to go if selling at a distance. Anyway, each time something else has sold first so I could take the Shamrock off the market.  As much as I love it, I have a few other boxes so I'd never be without something to play. But by analogy to the old toast about Champagne: "Shamrocks for our real friends, real rocks for our sham friends."

PG
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