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Author Topic: How many can sight read on the melodeon?  (Read 12854 times)

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Mike Mccarthy

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How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« on: October 27, 2017, 11:49:32 AM »

Hope this hasn't been asked before, if it has feel free to point me in the right direction, but it's something that is bothering me slightly. I can kinda sight read ok on fiddle and guitar (and combined with listening to the tune to get the rhythm), but for some reason the connection between the dots on the page and the buttons on the box just won't stay in my head. And I find it very difficult to learn a tune's melody by ear (I seem to have developed a poor method where I use the dots to tell me what not to play and my ears to tell me when and for how long) so I can't learn a tune entirely by ear, so I am left in a bit of a no man's land.
I've been working out tunes I know by using the numbering system George uses in his book, and that's fine at home, but if I am scared that I'll be at a session or folk orchestra and suddenly a new piece of music will be put in front of me and I'll fail.
So, I was wondering how many of our very accomplished players here can sight read for the box and how important is it to try and learn.
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Lester

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2017, 11:56:09 AM »

Can't sight read music but can more or less sight read ABC. Is it important, no not really managed the first 30 odd years without being able to read ABCs. Would I like to be able to sight read music, yes but not so much that I am willing to put in the effort to practice doing it.

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My main concern about many sight readers is their inability to not use the music.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2017, 12:00:37 PM »

... can more or less sight read ABC...
*sigh* there's always one  ;)
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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 12:35:59 PM »

I can, mainly because I.could already sight read on other instruments first.
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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2017, 12:41:48 PM »

I can sight read simplish tunes on the G row - just about.  I am better at sight reading on the recorder / whistle so I often learn a tune by playing it on the recorder (especially ones in D) and then play it by ear on the melodeon.

I can also whistle or sing a tune from the notes (once again if its simplish), but would not expect to get the key right.

I'm much better at reading the notes when I already know the tune!!

Mostly I pick up tunes by ear and then look at the music to see which bits I might be making up. There are still many tunes that I play where I don't think I've ever looked at the music (or not seriously anyway).
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Sebastian

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 12:43:24 PM »

I was wondering how many of our very accomplished players here can sight read for the box and how important is it to try and learn.
Don't know about the "very accomplished" part, but I do sight reading for the box. It's the main method for me to learn new tunes (and to re-visit tunes I have forgotten how to play).

My main concern about many sight readers is their inability to not use the music.
Yes. I often use the musical notation to brush through collections of tunes, and when I find one, that sounds interesting, I learn it by heart from the notation and - if available - compare it to the playing of real musicians.  ;)

Learning a tune from the musical notation doesn't mean to learn the single notes, but to analyse the structure. The musical notation does not necessarily have to be in the key you are playing it on the box, but you have to spot, which is the fundamental note, where does the harmony change to the dominant chord and so on.
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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 12:45:37 PM »

I can sight read. I learned on other instruments and always use it when learning a new instrument. One thing that helps for me is that I play a semitone box. So I can sight read the D row fairly well but the C# row I mostly just think of it in relation to the D row. If I'm looking for a flat note I'll find the natural on the D row and then just move down to the outside row. I tried learning to sight read with a 3 row ADG and was completely lost outside the D row.
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Julian S

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2017, 12:47:52 PM »

For many years I mainly learned by ear - I found that my childhood music theory and piano playing didn't translate into being able to sight read quickly and easily on the box. However, in the past ten years or so - through a lot of  practice, I've become pretty competent I reckon - and I've found it worthwhile given the large collection of tune books I've acquired over the years.  I've never bothered with ABC but I suppose I should have a go !
What I would find useful is the ability to transcribe keys in my head so I don't automatically ignore tunes written out in the 'wrong' keys...or have to use software to transcribe.
Saying that, if I had to lose one ability, I'd much prefer to lose that of sight reading over learning by ear. It's so important to be able to do that. And playing for dancing whilst using the dots is to me an absolute no-no...

J
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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2017, 01:07:09 PM »

I also learned on other instruments and also play a semitone box. I can read music and know where the notes are on the instrument and can negotiate my way through something new that has 1-3 sharps.

But sight-reading really means being able to play music you haven't seen before at tempo and I can't say I can do that reliably. I have a fiddler friend who sometimes joins me on dance gigs. Stick a tunebook in front of her and she'll play any unknown Irish reel at 116 bpm or as fast as you want, with such style and so perfectly you'd think she had been playing it for years. That is sight-reading.

James Fitton

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2017, 01:12:48 PM »


Sight-reading is great for gaining a first quick feel for a tune, or for playing along with others for fun. I think I can do both pretty well. It's not good at all for playing in performance - or at least I'd only attempt that as a very last resort, as the risk of things going horribly wrong would be just too great. I know some orchestral and session players are expected to be able to play to a standard which is very close to sight reading to performance standard, but I certainly can't do that.


There's an analogy with non-music reading here. As we learn to read, we gradually stop spelling out individual letters, and increasingly see words and then whole standard phrases. In the same way, musical sight reading gradually moves from being note-by-note to phrase by phrase, and we learn a repertoire of physical movements for each of those phrases. But even the best actor would prefer not to be faced with a completely unfamiliar text and be expected to perform it to the best of his/her ability. Learning the text or the music means we can perform it with full interpretation and musicality. Or at least that's the aspiration!
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Mike Mccarthy

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 01:17:44 PM »

thank you all for the replies, mush to think about. I think I'd like to get to the point where I can play, from the dots, a rough version of a tune, if only to tell me which button to push or which direction to pull the bellows.
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george garside

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2017, 01:37:15 PM »

I can't sight read a tune I have never heard but can site read any tune I already know  and some I just have an inkling of.  However I find my version of sight reading is much easier on a 2 or 3 row semitone box in whatever key its written in.  However on a fourth aprt DG box   I find it much easier on the G than the D row for some strange reason.

For what its worth I can also site read ( with the aforementioned proviso)  whilst at the same time playing in a key other than indicated on the sheet of dots,  Eg dots  in A but play in CGDF or whatever. perhaps that's a sign of a warped mind although I think the French have a word for it ? solmisation or something like that?

george
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Marje

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2017, 01:44:21 PM »

I haven't seen anyone so far say that they can sight read but not play by ear. Sight-reading (or simply reading music without necessarily playing accurately at sight) is a useful skill for many of us, but playing by ear is almost essential for any social/musical context where melodeons are played.

We seem to have a range of ways of doing this. Mine is to use the dots to tell me or remind me of the rhythm and the shape of the melody. I need to get the tune into my head first, and only then will I have a go at playing it. This means that "transposing" isn't really a problem for me, as it doesn't matter much what key the tune happens to be written in. But that's just me, others do it differently.

I would suggest that you really persevere with playing simple tunes by ear - start with something really familiar like Happy Birthday or One Man Went to Mow, so you'll instantly recognise a wrong note. Gradually you should get a feel for the intervals you get on the push or the pull notes, and be able to anticipate what sound the buttons will make. It does get easier, as you soon find the same note-patterns occurring in different tunes.

Sorry if this isn't really answering your question, but I don't know anyone who plays melodeon competently and up to speed from the dots without also being able to play by ear.
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Mike Mccarthy

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2017, 02:09:07 PM »

"Sorry if this isn't really answering your question, but I don't know anyone who plays melodeon competently and up to speed from the dots without also being able to play by ear."

just because this is something I didn't want to hear doesn't mean it isn't something I need to hear. I must confess I find playing by ear to be really difficult, and because of that it is something I have neglected. I will attempt to persevere with it.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2017, 02:30:29 PM »

I can sight read single note melodies and play by ear.
My favourite route to a new tune is to get an accurate abc notation.
I put this into abcexplorer ( or easyabc if you prefer ) and that generates a musical score *and* a midi music fine.  I can then print off and look at the dots whilst listening to the tune, and scribble on the score to emphasise bits, make notes etc to remind me of the tune.
I go away and start to play the tune, trying different ways to play phrases (push or do I pull this bit?)
and add chords  and see how it feels.
I find abc notation a great bridge between sight reading only and ear learning. To me abc notation combines both disciplines to get the best of both worlds.

It also allows me to change the key of a tune easily by using the transposing tool within abcexplorer, hear what it sounds like in -say- D then try it in G....
Abc notation is a great learning tool.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2017, 02:31:42 PM »

When I was playing the mandolin regularly I could sight read intuitively at playing speed . I can't do this with anything like the same fluency on the melodeon. Seems to be a common condition but I'm not certain that's a bad thing.

I am sure it's a skill that develops through practice, as  all skills do, but I prefer to put my time into learning tunes.

Also, I suspect becoming more fluent in melodeon sight reading would tend to make me more dependent on the dots to remember tunes. I would rather not have to do that playing out, which I do a lot more on the box than the stringed instruments.

It's fun to get out and about. On the mandolin I could play any tune within my skill level, given the dots and start messing around with ornamentation by the second or third time through, but I never played outside of my living room.
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george garside

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2017, 02:46:15 PM »

Mike, as Marge has said start off with simple tunes that are already in your head.  With many simple tunes the first note is the same as the keynote  so if a tune is  to be played on the  G row it  there is a good  chance it will start on the note G.

take for example when the saints go marching in  the first note is button 3 press (G on the G row or D on the D row whichever key you want it to be in)  This particular tune only requires 3 adjacent buttons i.e. 345.  Then using a poking and prodding procedure  on those 3 buttons find the next note, then the next etc etc until you have the whole tune always keeping the fingers lightly resting on those 3 buttons so you don't lose your place.

other simple tunes can be poked and prodded out in the same way

winster gallop buttons 3456,  oh dear what can the matter be 3456 same goes for many others

In and out the windows although itself a very simple tune uses buttons 23456 but starts on 4 push  before prodding around for the rest

playing by ear ( shorthand for learning tunes by ear and playing from memory) is a skill that can be learned  but like any other  skill it needs to be gradually learned and  frequently practiced!

george
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2017, 03:03:10 PM »


 I am scared that I'll be at a session or folk orchestra and suddenly a new piece of music will be put in front of me and I'll fail.


Never be scared of failure in this sort of situation. No one will judge you badly for it. No one will mind.
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Howard Jones

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 03:08:54 PM »

When I was a child I learned recorder, note by note. It was slow and fairly boring, but I learned to map the dots with the fingering.  Then I took up guitar, where I learned to think of chords as finger patterns rather than groups of notes and I played from chord names or windows above the staff rather than looking at the notes.  When I moved on to anglo concertina and later melodeon I played by ear, and I've never managed to make the connection between the note on the page and the buttons. It doesn't help that I play instruments in different keys so the same fingering comes out in different keys. I keep meaning to learn to read music better, but it's easier to play a new tune on recorder or play back the ABC.

I even struggle to recognise tunes I know from notation, although usually  the penny eventually drops.

george garside

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Re: How many can sight read on the melodeon?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 03:16:16 PM »


 I am scared that I'll be at a session or folk orchestra and suddenly a new piece of music will be put in front of me and I'll fail.


Never be scared of failure in this sort of situation. No one will judge you badly for it. No one will mind.

 a great advantage of the melodeon in the sort of situation described is that  not only will no  one mind but no one need know. Just open the bellows, keep the air button pressed  and fart about with random buttons and bellows movements  , in other words you can just mime with a melodeon.  And you never know  but sometimes if so doing you can start playing bits of the tune here and there

george
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