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Author Topic: Restoring a Liliput  (Read 1212 times)

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playandteach

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Restoring a Liliput
« on: November 06, 2017, 05:30:54 PM »

OK my Liliput has turned up. CF and in the condition I expected - needs doing up. In the past I've used Charlie's top quality Persian leather / felt for the palettes. My concern is that there may not be enough play in the levers to accept something that thick. I used it on the Erika and opened up the levers to accommodate the thicker material.
If you've done up a Liliput, what did you use for palette resurfacing?
While I'm asking, is there anything else I should be aware of (I'll be getting someone else to tune and rewax reeds)?
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Lester

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 05:32:10 PM »

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playandteach

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 09:41:15 PM »

Thanks, Lester. I'll get to it.
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Lester

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 09:52:29 PM »

You will need to realign (bend) the levers once you have finished as the buttons will lay lower due to the thicker felt. Easy enough to do though.

If you want a bit of sport remove the fingerboard as refitting it is slightly harder than completing a Rubic's Cube :)
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playandteach

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 12:19:32 AM »

Started work on palettes. I am a clack hater. Does anyone recommend bushing the bass buttons on these?
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playandteach

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 12:26:29 AM »

I have removed the keyboard as the blocks had split as  the celluloid shrank.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 07:57:54 AM »

Started work on palettes. I am a clack hater. Does anyone recommend bushing the bass buttons on these?
Bushing will certainly quieten the action, but is secondary to replacing the pallet facing.
If you do go down the bushing route, you will need to ream out the holes using a proper tapered reamer, not a drill. Also for the bushing material itself, I strongly recommend you use proper hole bushing felt which is used on concertinas. It is thin but strong with a special weave to stop it fraying. Obtainable from Mark Lloyd-Adey who is one of the Charlie Marshalls of the concertina world. See here.
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RogerT

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 10:35:53 PM »

I recently refaced liliput pallets with kid skin, which was similar in thickness to the old stuff (but reduced the clack quite a bit) so I did not need to mess with the button height and in fact avoided having to dismantle the treble keyboard, which can be time consuming and, having done it a few times, unnecessary. Same for the bass pallets and air pallets.
I reason that if a single layer of skin was good enough when the instrument was manufactured, then it's good enough now. And I'm not overly happy about resetting the button height, which involves bending this and that - the pallet/soundboard clearance can get messed up if too much thickness is added to the pallet, and then I'm mildly concerned about the effect this might have the sound, esp to the reeds tucked down near the keys. This is how I approach it anyway.

playandteach

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 02:29:32 PM »

Having refaced the palettes with the usual quality CGM Persian leather / felt, I now know that the facings are too thick. They require more bending of keys than I think the box can cope with, and would suggest that anyone else doing it consider thinner stuff. No great harm done. And something learnt. Of course, just because I think that way - doesn't mean I'm right.
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NickF

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 07:50:56 AM »

If you want a bit of sport remove the fingerboard as refitting it is slightly harder than completing a Rubic's Cube :)

You are an evil man Mr Bailey  ;)
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RogerT

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 08:10:05 AM »

If you want a bit of sport remove the fingerboard as refitting it is slightly harder than completing a Rubic's Cube :)

You are an evil man Mr Bailey  ;)
;D you only want to try it once. And then it is ...'now do I *really* need to take that keyboard to bits?....nah'

playandteach

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 04:12:48 PM »

Actually I did have to remove the keyboard and it was no problem to refit. Took about 2 minutes. Maybe I should try it again!
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2018, 07:00:18 PM »

I recently refaced liliput pallets with kid skin, which was similar in thickness to the old stuff (but reduced the clack quite a bit)
Roger, do you know the thickness of the skin that you used?

Or alternatively, can someone suggest a more suitable thickness for use in a Liliput to minimise the need to bend the arms? (Noting Lester's earlier comment about using the usual stuff)

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:01:53 PM by malcolmbebb »
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Microbot

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 07:57:03 PM »

Hi Malcolm,

Lester directs to Charlie Marshall's Felt/leather combo at 2.5mm and I have also used this. But Roger is right - this can mean you need to bend the action more than is desirable to get decent button-height.

Roger's suggestion of kid skin is useful for Preciosas, but Liliputs can take (and benefit from) a slightly thicker material... It is available.

Charlie doesn't list all the thickesses he offers - he actually has some really nice extra-thin material in the brown/red, felt/leather range which is perfect for Liliputs at about 1.6mm/2mm. Chalie's website simply says the red/brown is available in "a range of thicknesses"...

Ring Charlie and ask him about the thinnest he offers ....

cheers!

Mike
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 08:21:25 PM »

Thanks Mike,
I had offered up some of Charlie's standard stuff and wasn't comfortable with it. (Uncompressed it came out nearer 3.3mm.)
I will see what the man has to offer.  (:)
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playandteach

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 11:56:20 PM »

A few months ago I resurfaced the pallets with the recommended gorgeous stuff from Charlie (I had used it several times before, and had checked with others that it was right for Liliputs too, but once fitted it was clearly way too thick.
I've stripped it off, and will leave that to a pro to decide when I get it restored.
The bending required was again clearly beyond what the levers could take. I hope I've done no long term damage because I stopped fairly quickly.
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Theo

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2018, 07:38:06 AM »

I make my own felt/leather  material for pallets.   For Liliputs and Preciosas the material I use is a shade under 2mm and seems to work effectively.  In addition to the lever bending another potential problem with over thick pallet material is that the pallet may strike the underside of the grill. 
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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2018, 03:40:26 PM »

For what it's worth I've recently re-padded one of my Preciosa's with standard felt and and a sheet of clothiers leather, glued together. Not sure what animal exactly. Once seated and compressed it's thin enough for the lift of the pallets. Still enough air. I didn't bend any rods, instead I pulled all the pallets, cleaned, and re-attached them with wax. Made the whole thing a lot more air-tight. Happy camper here.
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Edward Jennings

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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2018, 04:34:46 PM »

Wax is really useful! I've just been using it to fasten a new reedblock to the fondo thingy. However, I'm a bit sceptical as to whether it will stand up to the rigours of a pallet to lever joint clattering up and down. Time will tell, I suppose.
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Re: Restoring a Liliput
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2018, 11:46:02 AM »

I'm not sure about the Preciosa's but I think it's a proven technique? Pallets put on this way on other instruments I've had (accordions), have not fallen of yet. But maybe I'm just light handed  :||:
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