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Author Topic: Question about GC and BC  (Read 2551 times)

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Stephen D

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Question about GC and BC
« on: November 09, 2017, 10:20:12 PM »

Hi everyone!

I have a GC Pokerwork and I want to play some Irish on it without buying a BC. I know there are many great tunes in G or C, which is fine, or I can just transcribe some songs from D to G or C, or just work around the C#s.

Anyways! My question is :

The C row on the GC melodeon. Is it the same octave as the C row on a BC?

I feel as though the GC  C-row is an octave lower than a BC C-row, is this wrong?

Thanks!

 :||:
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Theo

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 10:30:58 PM »

They are the same.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Stephen D

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 11:14:40 PM »

Great!  :Ph
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Stephen D

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 09:41:47 PM »

I have another question!

Say there is a Em chord in the song I want to play.

Do you think playing the E bass and a G Chord would be a suitable replacement for an Emin chord?

Since G is the the relative minor of E....

I haven't tested it out yet because I am separated from the instrument for the next few weeks...  :'(  :||:
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arty

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 09:48:02 PM »

Yes, E bass + G chord is correct  :D
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Stephen D

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 09:53:33 PM »

Thanks!
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 01:08:48 AM »

...Do you think playing the E bass and a G Chord would be a suitable replacement for an Emin chord?...
Yes - as Arty has said, push G chord with E bass. This combination actually gives you an Em7 chord, which is a very acceptable alternative to a 'proper' Em chord. (I assume your push E chord on your G/C pokerwork is the standard E major)
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Rog

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 01:17:34 PM »

If you are playing the tunes from music and not playing with other musicians and or playing along to a recording, you can of course just pretend your GC is a DG box, and use DG fingering/chords etc. The GC is a 'fourth apart' box, which is the interval between the outer row and inner row. As is a DG, CF etc. The BC is a 'semitone box, the interval between the outer and inner rows being a semitone. Fingering/scales/chords transpose easily between fourth apart boxes. You can play the same tune on any 4th apart box, the difference being the actual pitch you hear. This is also true of semitone boxes, e.g. BC, C#D, DD#, CC#, where the scales/fingering you have learned on the semitone (E.g. Irish) system is transposable from one semitone box to another. The only commonality between the two systems is if you play the whole tune up and down one row. I'm sure someone will be along directly to correct me on this. However I thought I'd mention it because you mentioned both systems together, and they are very different.

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 04:17:27 PM »

Does tuning one semi-dry swing also qualifies for the semi tone being mentioned here?
Anyways I got me a set of ADGs I semi dry tune them and it’s a lot cleaner to play along recordings and live performances though never tried the Irish style tunes with this box 🎵😇🦇👏🏽🐾🐔🦅🕊
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george garside

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 05:05:26 PM »

,  . However I thought I'd mention it because you mentioned both systems together, and they are very different.

I  think of the two systems (4th aprt and semitone) as being  'completely' different '     they are completely different , but only just!

Both can of course be played 'on the row' in their home keys  eg D and G  or B and C

To play in other than the home keys   both need  buttons  from both rows to be used. on the semitone boxes this is logical and fairly intuitive  as one row acts as the 'white notes' and all the accidentaals required for   keys ( i.e little diversions from the 'white' row) fall very naturally to hand whereas on a semitone box  they may be at the chin end, perhaps on a 3rd row or perhaps not atall and unlike the semitone box there is no single layout many being chosen by the first buyer.

The biggest difference comes with the bass or lack thereof.  The 4th aprt  8 bass boxes  boxes have good bass for a limited range of keys  whereas the standard 8 bass semitone box  is more limited  in the bass department especialy when  the range of keys easily playable on the treble is taken into account,  It is also not easy to drive a solid rhythm with the bass on a small semitone box.

on the small semitone box  a good deal of row crossing is necessary for no other reason than to get better bass harmony  aand to some degree this also applies to the choice of push or pull B & E on a semitone box

the bass relationship with the treble  can be largely eliminated with a couple of handfulls of unisoric bass in stradella or other format (as in trixywhatsits) and I find it difficult to understand why such layouts are not more popular.   I am very much enjoying my recently acquired 12 stradella bass  BC double ray  as both treble and bass for keys FCGDAE are readily available in a nice compact little box

george



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Stiamh

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 06:24:13 PM »

To play in other than the home keys both need buttons  from both rows to be used. on the semitone boxes this is logical and fairly intuitive  as one row acts as the 'white notes' and all the accidentals required for keys ( i.e little diversions from the 'white' row) fall very naturally to hand whereas on a semitone 4th apart box  they may be at the chin end, perhaps on a 3rd row or perhaps not atall and unlike the semitone box there is no single layout many being chosen by the first buyer. [...] On the small semitone 4th apart box  a good deal of row crossing is necessary for no other reason than to get better bass harmony and to some degree this also applies to the choice of push or pull B & E on a semitone box

We know what you mean George but some might get the impression you are biased and that the only box you can see is a semitone box...

BTW maybe you should say B/C, because much of what you say doesn't apply to the sizeable minority of semitone box players who play C#/D: the white notes/black notes analogy doesn't work (I myself don't think it's very useful for B/C players, but there) and what you say about the inadequacies of 8-bass semitone systems applies only partially to C#/D.

BTW hands up anyone apart from George who thinks B/C is "logical and [fairly] intuitive"?  >:E  I think it's a great system btw but I'd say it's only intuitive after you have mastered it!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:26:24 PM by Stiamh »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 06:31:33 PM »

I have just realised the depth of my ignorance. Have I got this right? Generally, in a two row, fourth apart box,  such as a DG, without reconfigured reversals, most notes in the root major scales are available in both directions except for the root, second and seventh on the outer row (fourth, fifth and sixth on the inner row). In contrast, on a semitone box, such as a CC#  no notes are available in both directions except for the first and the fourth  on the outer row (seventh and third on the inside row).
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:34:22 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Stiamh

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 06:34:57 PM »

I have just realised the depth of my ignorance. Have I got this right? Generally, in a two row, fourth apart box,  such as a DG, without reconfigured reversals, most notes in the root major scales are available in both directions except for the root, second and third on the outer row (fourth, fifth and sixth on the inner row). In contrast, on a semitone box, such as a CC#  no notes are available in both directions except for the first and the fourth  on the outer row (seventh and third on the inside row).

That is correct. The corollary is that on a standard semitone box there is no note of the chromatic scale that you don't have, while on a standard fourth-apart box, excluding chin-end or extra-row accidentals, you have only one note one in each row that is not in the diatonic scale of the other (:)

Theo

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 06:56:03 PM »

And you can make great music on either system.😀
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 07:20:33 PM »

Theo...are you a semitone box player?

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 07:54:12 PM »

And you can make great music on either system.😀

Have to agree. I love Irish box playing. I'm just beginning to realise that I don't know how it's done, though. On a DG etc I have a pretty good idea of the way people do things, even if I can't always do it myself. On a semitone box ???????
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Greg Smith
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george garside

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 08:17:37 PM »

 
We know what you mean George but some might get the impression you are biased and that the only box you can see is a semitone box... 

quote

That would be a very wrong impression!

 I play both DG and BC and always use the DG when playing for 'English' ceilidhs  as well as running dg workshops at major folk festivals and selling over 1000 of my DG tutor books.

I also  like the semitone BC and BCC# having starting on a BC around 60 years ago.  I must admit that I prefer semitone boxes with stradella bass and use them to accompany singing  and along with a Dg in some sessions in case the stringy lot go into strange keys like A or E or F or whatever!

 my experience is that both systems   have their advantages and disadvantages  and playing both is not as difficult as some people imagine as, to me, the commonalities are far greater than the differences 

george





 
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Theo

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 08:19:15 PM »

Theo...are you a semitone box player?

I can play basic tunes in G on a BC (or A on a C#/D) but I wouldn't say I was a player.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Stiamh

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 08:48:39 PM »

We know what you mean George but some might get the impression you are biased and that the only box you can see is a semitone box... 
That would be a very wrong impression!

I know George, I was just winding you up because in your previous post you kept writing semitone when you meant the other kind...  :|glug

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Re: Question about GC and BC
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 11:07:15 PM »

 :D ;)

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