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Author Topic: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?  (Read 17481 times)

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blackdot1234

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2017, 11:28:43 AM »

Just to say i have made a good few treble and base reed blocks for castagnari hohner and paolo soprani all made from solid wood not laminated up but cut and shaped from a solid piece of  cherry / mahogany/ teak  /  with separate  base plate bonded with pva reed chambers cut with router and jig corners finished with chisel  any shaping to the surface where reeds sit was done prior to routering  i will attach photos of treble end 2 voice blocks i made for my own 21 /8  2 voice box build reed blocks are cherry  box is mahogany
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boxcall

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2017, 01:16:14 PM »

Just to say i have made a good few treble and base reed blocks for castagnari hohner and paolo soprani all made from solid wood not laminated up but cut and shaped from a solid piece of  cherry / mahogany/ teak  /  with separate  base plate bonded with pva reed chambers cut with router and jig corners finished with chisel  any shaping to the surface where reeds sit was done prior to routering  i will attach photos of treble end 2 voice blocks i made for my own 21 /8  2 voice box build reed blocks are cherry  box is mahogany
Looks good, cherry would be my choice shapes easily. Router is a goog choice too, you would still need to make an accurate jig. You say you cut the taper to the block then routered out the chambers, this seems problematic.
 How did you control the depth of your cuts. Did you adjust the depth as you went down the block or have a taper on the jig itself to match the taper of block?

And did you take the full depth in one pass or multiple passes? I'm assuming you used a mortising bit !/4" or 3/8" maybe. As I write this I realize I behind the times with fractions. (:)
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blackdot1234

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2017, 02:01:23 PM »

yes an accurate jig is made first for a router collet and 10mm router cutter i make the jig so the wood will be at the right angle for the taper on the reed chamber  and make multiple passes to achive a good clean finish  once the chambers are cutout i shape the top  then stick the base on  also just to add the grain is running lenght ways if you were screwing reeds in place it would be better to have grain running with the length of the reed plate  by laminating the block in 3 pieces middle piece grain lenght ways 2 outside pieces running at 90 degrees  if you follow me
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 02:39:00 PM by blackdot1234 »
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boxcall

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2017, 03:00:16 PM »

Ok, thanks. I follow you on the grain direction, I need to convert mm to inches though.
Boy I wish they taught us the metric system in the US when I was in school, I'm not sure if they do now? Crazy if they don't teach kids that.
I suppose I'll just have to teach myself, over time.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 04:50:33 PM by boxcall »
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blackdot1234

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2017, 04:07:32 PM »

10mm is 3/8 in 16mm collet is 5/8in the template has to allow work piece to move left to right and reed chamber template to move up and down for long and short reeds ill try and find my jig and take a picture later
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2017, 10:25:09 AM »

I would imagine that laminating a block before routing would improve its stability much as with plywood.

Rob
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blackdot1234

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2017, 03:18:37 PM »

Yes laminating hardwood for reed blocks changes the way the block resinates because of glue used and less flexible  thefore change in sound produced by reeds doug briggs has done a lot of research in to this and makes all reed blocks from solid wood not laminated  and caps off block with a strip of walnut
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2017, 03:48:57 PM »

I have had this crazy notion that it might be possible to use a morticing rig to cut a row of holes of appropriate sizes and depths, into a solid block of wood, then saw it right down the centre line. This would give you two reed blocks. . Yes I know, it's a daft idea, but I have them sometimes.

Sir John
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rees

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2017, 04:17:08 PM »

I have had this crazy notion that it might be possible to use a morticing rig to cut a row of holes of appropriate sizes and depths, into a solid block of wood, then saw it right down the centre line. This would give you two reed blocks. . Yes I know, it's a daft idea, but I have them sometimes.

Sir John

Not so daft. Marc Savoy makes bass reed blocks very wide then cuts them into strips thus giving several reed blocks from one glueing operation.
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Stockaryd

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2018, 08:22:25 PM »

I am waiting for the next result/try/idea.   Tell me, did you try sugru?  How did it work out?    Anyone?   
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boxcall

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #90 on: March 19, 2019, 08:54:16 PM »

I have had this crazy notion that it might be possible to use a morticing rig to cut a row of holes of appropriate sizes and depths, into a solid block of wood, then saw it right down the centre line. This would give you two reed blocks. . Yes I know, it's a daft idea, but I have them sometimes.

Sir John

Not so daft. Marc Savoy makes bass reed blocks very wide then cuts them into strips thus giving several reed blocks from one glueing operation.

If you do it as Sir J suggested your going to have a grain issue  for screws on the chamber dividers.

As Rees said.
Marc does a wide strip  ( but chamber divider dimension with the grain in the right direction) assembly then cuts them down on the table saw.

He also puts a taper on his blocks, do most builders do a taper or put in filler on the high reeds?
Without opening a cans of worms ( if possible) is one way better than the other?

I also wonder if doing this type of assembly does it matter about notching the top of the reed bank dividers?? I know the joint would be stronger with more glue surfaces but you don’t have it at the other end of the reed block. I can also see that a wide piece attached there would be good for sound so maybe that has something to do with it.
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #91 on: March 19, 2019, 10:35:55 PM »

I have had this crazy notion that it might be possible to use a morticing rig to cut a row of holes of appropriate sizes and depths, into a solid block of wood, then saw it right down the centre line. This would give you two reed blocks. . Yes I know, it's a daft idea, but I have them sometimes.

Sir John

Sadly, that wouldn't work. A mortiser is accurate enough for joinery, but not for instruments. My old Sedgwick weighed about 200 Kg and was a joy to use but with accuracy of only 1mm or so, more if the timber had  an inconsistent grain.
Another problem with mortise chisels is that the bottom of the cut is pretty rough. Again accuracy is not consistent.
Finally you'd end up with short grain between the channels. It's just how wood grows.
Building up with the grain running in the best direction for strength is a far better idea. Jigs will ensure accuracy and consistency and hand tools will be fine for preparing. Machine tools will be quicker, but careful handwork can achieve equally good results.
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tirpous

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2019, 02:16:58 AM »

Quote
He also puts a taper on his blocks, do most builders do a taper or put in filler on the high reeds?
Without opening a cans of worms ( if possible) is one way better than the other?

For my 1-row project I followed the lead of early German makers and tapered all blocks from low to high reeds.  The standing block has a wedge core and also tapers slightly from reed root to tip, if that makes sense.  It's easier to do than to explain - and kind of fun too.  I like to think that the higher reeds work better with smaller chambers (and no need to reverse reeds/add a filler wedge à la Hohner).  But who knows...       
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mselic

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2019, 02:35:02 AM »

How do you determine the depth of the chambers?
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tirpous

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2019, 04:16:25 AM »

Quote
How do you determine the depth of the chambers?

Measurements from a handful of old and not-so-old boxes, plus data from the Yahoo Group 1-row plan.  Guesstimated from there.  (:)
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boxcall

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2019, 02:31:31 PM »

Quote
He also puts a taper on his blocks, do most builders do a taper or put in filler on the high reeds?
Without opening a cans of worms ( if possible) is one way better than the other?

For my 1-row project I followed the lead of early German makers and tapered all blocks from low to high reeds.  The standing block has a wedge core and also tapers slightly from reed root to tip, if that makes sense.  It's easier to do than to explain - and kind of fun too.  I like to think that the higher reeds work better with smaller chambers (and no need to reverse reeds/add a filler wedge à la Hohner).  But who knows...     
Thanks for the photos! , I'm thinking I'll try the taper.
Did you cut yours on a table saw or set up a router with jig? I noticed you used something other than maple for the wedge piece.
I also see you notch both top and bottom of the reed block, do you think this is needed for strenght or is it more for assembly?

the standing block has just the butt glue joint into fondo at the base, so the same kind of connection if you don't notch top and bottom.

Quote
How do you determine the depth of the chambers?

Measurements from a handful of old and not-so-old boxes, plus data from the Yahoo Group 1-row plan.  Guesstimated from there.  (:)
yep, pretty much what I'm doing!
and gettting to see the one row course photos here helps alot.

do you have a thread on yours?
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tirpous

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2019, 04:58:19 PM »

Quote
Did you cut yours on a table saw or set up a router with jig? I noticed you used something other than maple for the wedge piece.
I also see you notch both top and bottom of the reed block, do you think this is needed for strenght or is it more for assembly?

The wedge is spruce from a (nice) 2x4.  I sliced it close to the line on the bandsaw and cleaned up with a plane.  I made the flat blocks as free-standing ladders.  The notches are handy to keep the rungs from sliding off-position when gluing.  After that I used the same bandsaw process, cleaning up with sandpaper this time, to create the taper in the flat blocks. It's certainly stronger with notches, the offcuts are barely 1 mm at the thin end and still holding (I kept them for reference).

No, I don't have a thread.  Notes and pictures (never enough) in case there is a next one ...
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rees

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2019, 05:19:33 PM »

I'm trying to work out how you cut the notches.
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boxcall

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #98 on: March 20, 2019, 05:35:17 PM »

I'm trying to work out how you cut the notches.
I did a trial piece by crosscutting a board on the table saw set to the depth of notch, figure out spacing and width of each , etc. then rip to final width.

My first run work out good for spacing but I was making my dividers to big to begin with :o

Edit : to add table saw set on angle needed also ;)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 07:23:02 PM by boxcall »
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tirpous

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Re: Reed blocks ... come on then - how do you do it?
« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2019, 06:21:52 PM »

Quote
I'm trying to work out how you cut the notches.

In my case, either on the bandsaw with a stop block or by hand with a small saw.  Or maybe a combination of both.  A bit of chiseling and filing as needed, too.  It felt like aircraft modelmaking, but without the balsa...
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