Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Mazurkas - left hand  (Read 2653 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Julian S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1546
  • D/G Pastourelle 2, Dony, Pokerwork, G/C Pariselle
Mazurkas - left hand
« on: November 03, 2017, 04:03:55 PM »

As I'm currently learning a few new French style mazurkas, just wondered how others approach left hand bass/chord accompaniment. I follow the principle (or try to!) that mazurkas are definitely not just slow waltzes (and they do vary quite a bit)...I've been using held or pulsed bass and/ or chord quite a lot, so that the essential rhythm is set more by the right hand. But I'm sure there are other approaches which can enhance tunes and danceability ?

J
Logged
Old Bones Dance Band

Gary P Chapin

  • L'Accordéonaire
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1930
  • We are all the Free Reed Liberation Orchestra
    • l'Accordéonaire
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 04:52:31 PM »

My approach to French mazurkas does often rely on the Bass-chord-chord, but the rhythm is accented differently from a waltz. Sometimes its as obvious as the dotted-eighth sixteenth stress of some mazurkas (http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2011/10/mazurka-bec-bec.html). But even without that, there is always a kind of a kick or lift on the 3 of each measure. I try to get it across regardless of the left-hand (http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2017/05/two-frederic-paris-mazurkas.html). Playing mazurkas with people who know how to dance them is very very helpful.

One aspect of Mazurkas that remains mysterious to me is the newer sort of 9/8 mazurkas. I haven't quite wrapped my fingers around those.

Good luck on your quest!


Logged
Read the l'Accordéonaire French music blog: http://accordeonaire.com/
The Bal Folk Tune Book Project: https://accordeonaire.com/bal-folk-tune-book-project/
The Free Reed Liberation Orchestra: https://accordeonaire.com/the-free-reed-liberation-orchestra/

Rog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2296
  • Repair and tuning in Hants
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 06:15:22 PM »

One two three and One two three and

Julian S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1546
  • D/G Pastourelle 2, Dony, Pokerwork, G/C Pariselle
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2017, 07:55:22 AM »

I very much agree with Gary's point about playing for dancing. Last year, I finally got the hang of how to dance mazurkas after many years of failure - step was no problem but turns were terrible and as for the arguments with the missus !
Reckon I might search out some expert dancers on youtube and turn off the volume so I can play for them...
J
Logged
Old Bones Dance Band

Phil Howard

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 128
    • Red Cuthbert Morris
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2017, 09:02:08 AM »

Well asked, and thanks for doing so!
This is a distinction I have yet to get to grips with (to my shame) - M/P seem to simplify it in their first book based on l/h note length IIRC and trying to follow that I’ve struggled to get the feel right.
I’m interested to hear any further advice!
Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13730
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2017, 09:31:06 AM »

This isn’t exactly the answer to your question specifically about the LEFT hand, but about the mazurka rhythm generally.
There are differences in where the emphasis falls on the main main beats. So typically a waltz has the stress on beat one, in a mazurka it is most often on beat 2. The most important difference from the dancers point of view is the way the beats are divided.  In a waltz if the main beats are divided it is into 2 so the rythm could be written as 1-2, 2,-2, 3-2. A mazurka divided the beats into 3, so the mazurka rhythm could be written as 1-2-3, 2-2-3, 3-2-3.  So in practice if you see a waltz if you see a bar with 6 quavers in three pairs you would generally play the two notes in each pair the same length.  If you see the same pattern in a 3/4 mazurka then the first quaver of each pair would be extended at the expense of the second.  You can also think of this as being a bit like the difference between an un-dotted hornpipe where quavers are of equal length, and a dotted hornpipe where the first quaver of each pair is lengthened at the expense of the second.

If I’ve made that clear then the way it affects your playing applies to both left hand and right hand.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

arty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1443
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 09:43:12 AM »

I am no expert, so don’t listen to me but I do love mazurkas.
The way I think of it, is that a mazurka is exactly the same as a waltz but far, far sexier. There are many videos on YouTube illustrating this, especially under the title ‘Klandestine’. The thing is, from what I have heard, the melody is flowing, sexy, squirming almost, while the bass is staccato but very discreet. Often, the emphasis is on the third beat but it is ‘sharp’, like a snap of the fingers and subtle at the same time.
https://youtu.be/O0FNjVOc30M
Logged
Pre-Pokerwork C/F, Castagnari Laura G/C, Beltuna Sara 3 A/D, Castagnari Sander Special D/G

Nigel

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 368
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 10:38:51 AM »

I am no expert, so don’t listen to me but I do love mazurkas.
.....melody is flowing, sexy, squirming almost, while the bass is staccato but very discreet.

Well said Arty….you naughty man. I think of this dance as foreplay with a new partner (a far distant memory for me); flowing, subtle and with a hint of uncertainty. Letting my mind race just a little bit more, Lambada (the original style) is “it” on a dance floor. I used to do salsa & merengue dancing but not this one (honest Guv). The dance hails from Brazil (where else) and the band included a squeezebox player. MTOM?
Logged

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 01:28:13 PM »

I am no expert, so don’t listen to me but I do love mazurkas.
The way I think of it, is that a mazurka is exactly the same as a waltz but far, far sexier. There are many videos on YouTube illustrating this, especially under the title ‘Klandestine’. The thing is, from what I have heard, the melody is flowing, sexy, squirming almost, while the bass is staccato but very discreet. Often, the emphasis is on the third beat but it is ‘sharp’, like a snap of the fingers and subtle at the same time.
Like this perhaps?  :Ph  :|bl
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

IanD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1662
  • Too many melodeons...
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 02:11:35 PM »

I am no expert, so don’t listen to me but I do love mazurkas.
The way I think of it, is that a mazurka is exactly the same as a waltz but far, far sexier. There are many videos on YouTube illustrating this, especially under the title ‘Klandestine’. The thing is, from what I have heard, the melody is flowing, sexy, squirming almost, while the bass is staccato but very discreet. Often, the emphasis is on the third beat but it is ‘sharp’, like a snap of the fingers and subtle at the same time.
Like this perhaps?  :Ph  :|bl

Or the best tune in the world for Rosza, according to Gordon -- who should know since he wrote the dance...

https://soundcloud.com/ian-dedic/vuomo-perttis-mazurka
Logged
Oakwood Model 4 D/G, Castagnari Dony D/G/#, Castagnari Tommy G/C, Baffetti Binci D/G, Hohner Preciosa D/G, Melos Bb/Eb, Lightwave SL5 and Kala California fretless basses

Julian S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1546
  • D/G Pastourelle 2, Dony, Pokerwork, G/C Pariselle
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 04:11:15 PM »

I am no expert, so don’t listen to me but I do love mazurkas.
The way I think of it, is that a mazurka is exactly the same as a waltz but far, far sexier. There are many videos on YouTube illustrating this, especially under the title ‘Klandestine’. The thing is, from what I have heard, the melody is flowing, sexy, squirming almost, while the bass is staccato but very discreet. Often, the emphasis is on the third beat but it is ‘sharp’, like a snap of the fingers and subtle at the same time.
Like this perhaps?  :Ph  :|bl

Yep. I'd love to play for a couple dancing like that - but I know my limitations both musically - never mind on the dance floor !

J
Logged
Old Bones Dance Band

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4929
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 08:54:25 PM »

Carlo Boeddhu plays the mazurka fairly smoothly with quite a lot of oom pa pa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMKojivekM

I like that. But I prefer this way of doing it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f51k2j5oJDg
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 10:22:46 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

penn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 510
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 10:08:01 PM »

Greg, did you swap your links?
The second link is Carlo, the first link shows the composer dis-assembling his vielle (and a definitive rendition of course)
Steve
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4929
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2017, 10:25:52 PM »

Greg, did you swap your links?
The second link is Carlo, the first link shows the composer dis-assembling his vielle (and a definitive rendition of course)
Steve

Thanks Corrected. I didn't realise the second was the composer, I just love it and I think it goes a lot further than words can in describing how to play mazurkas for dance. Boeddu is pretty good, though.
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Julian S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1546
  • D/G Pastourelle 2, Dony, Pokerwork, G/C Pariselle
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2017, 09:06:18 AM »

The version by Carlo is lovely to listen to - and might well fit a mazurka clandestine I reckon -but in my opinion the 'definitive' just hits the spot in how I'd like to play Inconnu for dancing to. Todays project for me - playalong with Chavans et al ! But also absorb a bit of the Carlo feel maybe...

J
Logged
Old Bones Dance Band

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10172
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Mazurkas - left hand
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 08:24:03 PM »

Most of the “new style” is in 9/8 and that is important

Quite often a good musician will drop the note not onto the expected 3/4 beat, but onto the ternary beat that follows it or even 2/9 late if he is brave. The effect on the dancers is exquisite as there is some seemingly random jostling of limbs, resolving back as the he catches up next bar … or simply misses a note out.

I think that’s what makes them so sexy. Delicq was a master at this. So don’t even try to express them in strict 9/8. “Butterfly” a bit 😉   
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal