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Author Topic: Bandoneon reed plates  (Read 3378 times)

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Rog

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Bandoneon reed plates
« on: December 06, 2017, 04:47:30 PM »

I'm having the pleasure of working on (quite a new) bandoneon. It's reeds are mounted in banks, but on single reed plates, a bit like those unrepairable early melodeons with brass reeds mounted on one reed plate. In fact Nick CB's organette had a single reed plate for its reeds that looks very much like the bandoneon ones. His came from Harmonikas. Looking at these plates they are very efficient when it comes to the number of pairs of reeds you can fit for a given length.
So..just curious...has anyone thought of building a compact melodeon using these plates? Or indeed are there melodeons already out there with this reed arrangement, rather than individual reed plates for each pair.
The obvious downside is that you are sort of stuck with what is on the plate...but the upside is that they are very easy to fit/remove so long as your blocks are accurately made.

Edit...I should point out that the bandoneon reed blocks are glued in ...but given that you can lift out a reed plate in one go this isn't an issue.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 04:51:36 PM by RogerT »
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folkloristmark

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 05:16:42 PM »

Yes I have a German Kling.. Cf two row slightly smaller than Liliput with a such. Knackered reeds good case work. Not at home so no pic.I have seen others.
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 10:46:22 AM »

You're running the risk of entering whole new world pf free reed repair, Roger!  I am told that in Bandoneon friendly areas there are techs who regularly replace individual reed tongues on these long plates, much as some harmonica players do to maintain their favourite harp.  That must take you down a whole new road, learning to match materials and profiles, etc. - in effect learning to hand make reeds.

I guess it comes down to two different approaches to streamlining production techniques.  If you have in-house capability to manufacture long plates, then box building becomes faster and cheaper, the box will be lighter overall and can be made smaller.  But it doesn't lend itself well to customisation or repair unless you simply drop in a new plate.  I have only seen long plates in very old boxes or more recent relatively low quality ones.  I do however have an AA concertina which has long plates with a glorious sound (simpler than a Bandoneon, but still can't get my head around it).

I now have visions of you producing a sub-miniature box using harmonica plates.  Handy for travelling as it drops into your jacket pocket!

Rob
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Rog

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 05:05:00 PM »

 (:)
Luckily the bandoneon reeds were all ok but, yes indeed, that is the drawback. I haven't explored in detail but I think you can get the reed tongue replacement paraphernalia from Carini, including blank reed tongues (I *think*... their web site is a bit cryptic in places. I'm planning to go in person next year to have a good look around their store). This doesn't mean I'm planning to start making reeds any time soon, though replacing a tongue would be interesting to try, just for the experience IYSWIM.
Harmonikas supply the long reed plates as per Nick CB's Organette, but I haven't worked out how much a pair would cost, that would give you the two treble DG rows (edit..actually it would be 4 plates for a two voice box, but if the blocks are like a Bandoneon's, one air hole supplies a reed chamber pair).
Some of the reeds in the bandoneon were slightly off centre on their rivets (maybe it had had a hard knock...not sure), but this was easily remedied without replacing tongues.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 05:16:54 PM by RogerT »
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triskel

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 07:02:25 PM »

In Bandoneon circles long-plate reeds are actually considered superior for the desired tone of the instrument. The "doble A" Alfred Arnold tango Bandoneons, which are so sought after in Argentina, always had their reeds on long plates, but ones built during (and after) WW2 are considered much less desireable because they have accordion reeds on individual plates. It's good to see Harmonikas producing proper Bandoneon reeds now, and a reflection of a revival in the making of traditional-style Bandoneons in Germany these days.

(As an aside, I was honoured to be taken to lunch with Alfred Arnold's daughters, already grandes dames by then, in 2001 - when I was involved in the Sehnsucht aus dem Blasebalg Exhibition in Chemnitz.)

Kimric Smythe

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 05:15:18 PM »

You can replace reeds but it is a pain. I do it on occasion at my shop and I charge about $100 since i have to hand file the reed down from a larger old hohner reed (same tiny rivet hole) and the reed tips are very thin. Filing the clearances for the reed is the fun part and it can sometimes take two tries to get it right.
 I have done it about a dozen times.
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pikey

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 07:07:31 PM »

In Bandoneon circles long-plate reeds are actually considered superior for the desired tone of the instrument. The "doble A" Alfred Arnold tango Bandoneons, which are so sought after in Argentina, always had their reeds on long plates, but ones built during (and after) WW2 are considered much less desireable because they have accordion reeds on individual plates. It's good to see Harmonikas producing proper Bandoneon reeds now, and a reflection of a revival in the making of traditional-style Bandoneons in Germany these days.

(As an aside, I was honoured to be taken to lunch with Alfred Arnold's daughters, already grandes dames by then, in 2001 - when I was involved in the Sehnsucht aus dem Blasebalg Exhibition in Chemnitz.)

I’m the lucky owner of an AA Premier in black , pre war , with a gorgeous sound .
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Andrius

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 10:13:28 PM »

Almost all bandoneons has reeds on long plates, exception may be "Arno Arnold" (not the same like "Alfred Arnold" aka "AA" and not very good quality). One of leading bandoneon makers Klaus Gutjahr always makes reeds on long plates. Also the best quality hand made Russian "chromatic melodeons" ("garmoshka") has this type of reeds. I own one, and reeds quality is better or equal like my best Hohners. Some better quality factory-made Russian "chromatic melodeons" ("garmoshka") and PAs has this type of reeds too. They are called celnoplanochnaya. Also I own two Gallota accordions, both a little smaller like Liliput - one of them is with long reed plates; I guess this one is older. Also my Soberano is with long reed plates too. Long reed plates are standard for "Petersburg accordion" aka "minorka".
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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v

triskel

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 11:47:15 PM »

Almost all bandoneons has reeds on long plates, exception may be "Arno Arnold" (not the same like "Alfred Arnold" aka "AA" and not very good quality).

All the older Bandoneons had them, yes, but even Alfred Arnold had to switch to using Dix accordion reeds, on individual plates, during WW2 because (I'm told) Dix were the only people licensed to make reeds in German-occupied Europe in the War years, whilst there weren't a lot of Bandoneons being made after the War.

In fact it seems the Nazis discouraged/clamped down on the workingmen's Chemnitzer/Carlsfelder concertina and Bandoneon clubs in the '30s because they were seen as being Socialist, whilst the parallel rise of the very fashionable piano accordion in that decade also diminished interest in concertina-family instruments, and also in diatonic accordions/melodeons too, both in Germany and many other places.

I got to hear the tail end of that old German concertina/Bandoneon movement in Chemnitz in 2001, in the wonderful live playing of Siegfried Jugel, who died only a few years later in 2005.

Edited spelling

Andrius

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 08:03:53 AM »

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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v

triskel

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 03:18:46 PM »

Bandoneon orchestras still live:
Bandonionverein Carlsfeld
Bandoneonorchester die Geschichte Wilhelmsburgs
Bandonion Orchester im Ruhrgebiet
may be others exist too

It seems there's possibly more interest in Franken than anywhere else in Germany these days and, of course, there are still some people who play them.

I've heard nothing about the Konzertina & Bandonion - Orchester Chemnitz since I heard them play in 2001 though, but Siegfried Jugel was very much the leading light in that, as his father had been before him, and the star player. Indeed, I find their website is now gone and the domain for sale.

But I think we can safely say that the "workingmen's movement" of a century and more ago, which saw 50 clubs in Leipzig alone in the 1920s, and more than 20 in Chemnitz, is over.  :(

Rog

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 03:59:27 PM »

The bandoneon that came through my workshop was a Gutjahr. And very nice too..

Rob2Hook

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 08:42:50 PM »

Had a look at his website and yes, they look beautiful.

Rob.
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triskel

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 11:02:40 PM »

The bandoneon that came through my workshop was a Gutjahr. And very nice too..

I met Klaus Gutjahr at Michaelstein in 1999 (though I'd heard of him going back to the '70s) and got a CD from him. It was he who started the revival of Bandoneon making in Germany, but only on a small scale, there are no factories making them now.

Andrius

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Re: Bandoneon reed plates
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 09:27:36 PM »

I am one of bandoneon players, and i play bandoneon much more like melodeons, but less than violin  :D
I have tasted one of Gutjahr bandoneons not long ago. This bandoneon was about three years old, and i was impressed by it's amazing quality - it's more better like best "Alfred Arnolds" i ever tried. Sadly prices are not friendly for my country  :( but hope someday to get one...
Btw there are three groups of bandoneon players in Lithuania.
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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v
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