Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Session sets  (Read 3759 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1000
  • DG Pokerwork, DG Saltarelle Piroulet, CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Session sets
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2017, 11:32:32 AM »

...I use ABC playback as an essential ear-based aid to learning, at the same time as trying to read the score
(because I don't sight-read)...

I much prefer learning a tune from a recording that takes my fancy. Doesn't have to be of a melodeon. I find ABC playbacks 1. soul less and 2. often misleading. After all, you're learning music, not a sequence of tones.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

lachenal74693

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
  • Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
Re: Session sets
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2017, 11:49:00 AM »

my numbering:
1) I much prefer learning a tune from a recording that takes my fancy...
2) I find ABC playbacks soul less and
3) often misleading.
2) Agreed! Adding chords, however turgid, can make it a little less so,
3) Agreed! Sometimes I almost can't reconcile the ABC with a recording,
which is why I also try 1) whenever I can...

If you're as musically incompetent as I am, you need to try everything and anything!

R
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:51:01 AM by lachenal74693 »
Logged
Roger Hare
Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
rjhare at outlook dot com
Manchester Morris Men

Mcgrooger

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 470
  • Northern Roots
Re: Session sets
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2017, 12:17:38 PM »

Back to the original question - a few pairings that I like:
Keswick Bonnie Lasses (played in a slightly dotted fashion and slower than usual) in D with the Sportsman's Hornpipe, Am
Dicks Maggot (G) and Mr Isaacs (D) - tricky blighters though but!
Kit White's No.1 (G) and No.2 aka 'Swardle Lasses' (D)
Dorsetshire Hornpipe and The Cliff, both in D
Willy Taylor's High Tea and The Great North Run or similarly:
Whitehaven Volunteers and The Tannerman I played all 4 of these together under English Reels on my YT channel
 
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1000
  • DG Pokerwork, DG Saltarelle Piroulet, CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Session sets
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2017, 04:25:57 PM »

We warm up with:

Not for Joe, into (what we call) Upton Snodsbury, into the Rochdale Coconut.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10371
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Session sets
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2017, 04:49:42 PM »

I’ve always found that the most rewarding method is to learn sets that I like hearing in my local session.  Then when you’ve learned them you know that you won’t be playing alone.  For me process usually involves recording the tunes at the session and learning from the recording, but you could equally well get the tune names and learn them from notation.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3922
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Session sets
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2017, 08:14:02 PM »

.....and to record tunes from your local sessions, you get the version played locally as opposed to a tune book version.
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

lachenal74693

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
  • Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
Re: Session sets
« Reply #46 on: December 25, 2017, 08:54:34 AM »

Looking for suggestions for pairs or threes of tunes that go nicely together and for playing in English pub sessions....suggestions plz!

Again, not sure about the suitability for English pub sessions but 10 minutes ago, I noticed a feature
on The Session (https://thesession.org/). To get at it:

Enter a tune xxx in the search box and search...

If the tune is there, the blurb about the tune may include the line:

xxx has been added to n tune sets.

Click on n tune sets and you should see a listing of sets which include that tune.

You can then select and print the sheet music (or download the ABC if that's your thing).

If there are no tune sets including that tune, you will not see the line:
xxx has been added to n tune sets.

I haven't fully investigated this yet, and it may all be a bit too Irish/Scottish for English pub sessions
but I thought it was worth mentioning.

R


« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 09:07:24 AM by lachenal74693 »
Logged
Roger Hare
Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
rjhare at outlook dot com
Manchester Morris Men

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1268
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: Session sets
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2017, 07:38:15 AM »

I had not noticed this feature on The Session (which is my 'go to' tune source). Thanks.

lachenal74693

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
  • Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
Re: Session sets
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2017, 08:00:00 AM »

I had not noticed this feature on The Session (which is my 'go to' tune source). Thanks.

A little further investigation after my post of yesterday revealed that this feature seems
to have been introduced relatively recently - about a year ago.

The process of creating your own tune sets is fairly simple, though you do have to formally
'join' The Session before you can do this. You can then print the sessions as scores, or download
as ABC. If you use the 'Download ABC' button, you will end up with a file which includes all
tunes in the session listed as separate tunes. If you elect to 'cut and paste' the ABC displayed
on  the screen, you will end up with a file in which all the tunes in the set are concatenated into
a single ABC script - which will require a little simple editing before it  is usable (for example,
there may be no X: field or L: field in the 'cut and paste'd text).

Roger
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 08:54:21 AM by lachenal74693 »
Logged
Roger Hare
Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
rjhare at outlook dot com
Manchester Morris Men

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7933
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Session sets
« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2017, 08:31:46 AM »

I will post this and then run for my coat.  >:E
http://www.johnkirkpatrick.co.uk/wr_MedleyMania.asp

Agree, and agreed with John at the time. Medley is a simple way to extend one's spot in the limelight, but it isn't "making new music" is it? The room just gets into the swing of your music and … you swing out!

And so often nowadays, brutally. Arbitrary key change with no attempt at a linking cadence? Switch from waltz to 4:4 time, tripping over any dancers in those remote days when music was still "for dancing".

One session I could perceive no link at all between the tunes. I asked him. "Well, they were both Scottish"! 🤔

Much better, musically to develop your tune a bit? Invert the odd note run, play with the rhythm. Try a different base line? Play the chords on right end. Arpeggio or invert those.  Mix the last 2 with tune (that trick costs nothing) 😉

and finally back to theme, finishing on something cooler. But you've made something beautiful, original, new.

I've said this before. Merry Christmas
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 08:36:27 AM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4509
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Session sets
« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2017, 08:55:58 AM »

Personally, I find it refreshing when musicians make their own discoveries about similarities (on interesting contrasts)  between tunes. That may include dismantling well known pairings that have been played as a set for the last 40 years because somebody famous recorded them like that, and pairing the component tunes with others. For example I once heard someone NOT playing Harper's Frolic but going from The Sloe to Bonny Kate, which gave both tunes a new lease of life.

You do have to make sure people in a session are listening when you try that, of course...

In general, my preference is for no more that two tunes at a time, and always same length and rhythm because my secret agenda is trying out tune sets for the dance band.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.fendragon.co.uk

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Session sets
« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2017, 10:40:59 AM »

I'm with Anahata  on the no more than 2 tunes in a session set and with Chris  in respect pf 'sets' of tunes that don't fit smoothly together i.e change of  from 4/4 to 3/4 or whatever  when a couple of marches/reels or two nicely paired waltzes , perhaps with an ultra smooth key change rather than sounding like missing a gear on a crash box (gear not accordion)!

My 'test'  for tunes that fit nicely together for session or band is that if the A part of one fits seemlessly with the B part of t'other  they will work well as a set.

In some quarters there seems to be  a trend towards ''clever  dickyness'' rather than musicality!

on which note I think I should also 'run for my coat'!

george ;)

Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".    Available on ebay as a 'buy now' item. Put in melodeon tutor book for full info.

IanD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1374
  • Too many melodeons...
Re: Session sets
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2017, 01:46:37 PM »

I'm with Anahata  on the no more than 2 tunes in a session set and with Chris  in respect pf 'sets' of tunes that don't fit smoothly together i.e change of  from 4/4 to 3/4 or whatever  when a couple of marches/reels or two nicely paired waltzes , perhaps with an ultra smooth key change rather than sounding like missing a gear on a crash box (gear not accordion)!

My 'test'  for tunes that fit nicely together for session or band is that if the A part of one fits seemlessly with the B part of t'other  they will work well as a set.

In some quarters there seems to be  a trend towards ''clever  dickyness'' rather than musicality!

on which note I think I should also 'run for my coat'!

george ;)
Playing for actual dancing and "dance-style" playing in a session are two very different things. For dancing the tunes have to fit with each other *and* the dance which usually means the "feel" of the tunes is similar, but this doesn't mean (for example) any two jigs or polkas in the same key will work together as some seem to think. In a session even if the tunes are "dance-style" as far as speed and way of playing are concerned, it's quite possible to pair tunes with different feel or speed or even time signatures since they don't both have to fit the same dance -- for example a schottische into a slow jig can work very well, used occasionally.

And in either case I certainly wouldn't say the A of one has to fit with the B of another, even if they're in the same key (or major/minor), especially if you're going for contrast rather than similarity -- for example many of our band sets use the second tune to pep up the dancers half-way through, and it's very different to the first one for this reason, and no way will either A go with the other B, but together they make a great set.
Logged
Oakwood Model 4, Castagnari Dony, Castagnari Tommy, Hohner Preciosa, Melos, Baffetti Binci, Lightwave SL5 and Ibanez SR505 basses, Yanagisawa baritone sax

Rob2Hook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1985
  • Castagnaris, Hohners & Baffetti
Re: Session sets
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2017, 10:04:19 AM »

I  read everyone's advice on developing a tune over several (or many) repetitions and wonder what their local sessions are like.  There are, of course exceptions particularly when a player starts a more refined piece inspiring those joining in to accompany rather than join the melody - but on the whole, if the group know the tune, once they are in you could stop playing and leave the room.  No-one would notice.

I have a good friend with whom I love to play, but one of his favourite pairings I absolutely hate as he goes from a march to a hornpipe.  Love both the tunes, but the transition really jars!

Rob
Logged

Katie Howson

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
Re: Session sets
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2018, 10:29:30 PM »

Interesting thread! Been away for a couple of weeks in the west of Ireland where I've been to many sessions (this trip and many previous ones), sometimes playing, sometimes listening (and observing). The best session I went to was one where I didn't have any instruments with me. Eight musicians who all knew each other, a nice long session, hardly any 'audience' and everyone up for having a good time as well as playing LOTS of music. Although I didn't have any instruments, us few audience members felt part of the session too, just through the social energy of the evening.

I like medleys in a session, specially if they're open to someone thinking on their feet and adding a different tune on the end. Medleys like that create energy and fun, but to happen, the session needs to be relatively small and people need to listen to each other. There's a great description of how people come up with medleys in Ciaran Carson's book 'Last Night's Fun' which is all about playing in sessions. Recommended reading whatever your taste in tunes is.

Quote from Rob2Hook (forgotten how to add quotes) - "I  read everyone's advice on developing a tune over several (or many) repetitions and wonder what their local sessions are like.  There are, of course exceptions particularly when a player starts a more refined piece inspiring those joining in to accompany rather than join the melody - but on the whole, if the group know the tune, once they are in you could stop playing and leave the room.  No-one would notice." OMG, leave the room, leave the session if people aren't listening to each other!! That is just a lot of people playing in parallel, not playing together.
Logged

Katie Howson

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
Re: Session sets
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2018, 10:43:52 PM »

I read Ian's post about Irish music. I know exactly where you're coming from with that Ian, and don't disagree with it, and it was certainly part of the raison d'etre for the English music revival in the 1970s, but I think as 'English' sessions have proliferated and become ever bigger, we need to take a long hard look in the mirror, so I tried rephrasing your comments:

'What "English session" usually means is [...]wall-to-wall identikit umpy-dumpy English tunes played by people -- usually English -- who don't understand them, often play far too slow and with no life, and will take over a session with them played back-to-back given half a chance.

Don't get me wrong, English tunes played by people who understand them and play them with feeling and sensitivity (and often a tad faster, and with a lot more oomph, like they were once dance tunes...) are brilliant -- but the genre has been sadly tarnished by players who don't get any of this and just churn out wall-to-wall dross learned from a book with a thousand tunes in, most of them boring and built from the same few note sequences bolted together, and played by people who often think slower is automatically more authentic.'
[/color]

As ever, the truth lies somewhere in the middle I suppose, so where next ... Welsh music? Isle of Man? :-\
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 01:48:02 PM by Katie Howson »
Logged

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: Session sets
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2018, 01:45:18 AM »

Interesting thread! Been away for a couple of weeks in the west of Ireland where I've been to many sessions (this trip and many previous ones), sometimes playing, sometimes listening (and observing). The best session I went to was one where I didn't have any instruments with me. Eight musicians who all knew each other, a nice long session, hardly any 'audience' and everyone up for having a good time as well as playing LOTS of music. Although I didn't have any instruments, us few audience members felt part of the session too, just through the social energy of the evening.

I like medleys in a session, specially if they're open to someone thinking on their feet and adding a different tune on the end. Medleys like that create energy and fun, but to happen, the session needs to be relatively small and people need to listen to each other. There's a great description of how people come up with medleys in Ciaran Carson's book 'Last Night's Fun' which is all about playing in sessions. Recommended reading whatever your taste in tunes is.

Quote from Rob2Hook (forgotten how to add quotes) - "I  read everyone's advice on developing a tune over several (or many) repetitions and wonder what their local sessions are like.  There are, of course exceptions particularly when a player starts a more refined piece inspiring those joining in to accompany rather than join the melody - but on the whole, if the group know the tune, once they are in you could stop playing and leave the room.  No-one would notice." OMG, leave the room, leave the session if people aren't listening to each other!! That is just a lot of people playing in parallel, not playing together.
Nice Katie, lucky you!! I'd love to get over there and listen to some sessions. My grandparents came from the west of Ireland (Connemara) my Papa gave me a one row (which I still have, to bad He didn't show me how to use it years ago) it would be great to play some tunes there. It's on the to do list.
I have Islands in my blood, Ireland my mothers parents and Prince Edward Island my fathers parents and their parents parents came from Ireland.
I've been to PEI loads of times so Ireland should get priority.
I'll have to check out the book you recommended, I like melodies / sets even though I struggle with the transitions at times.
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

Edward Jennings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1258
    • "Our Luxor B&B" Luxor life, slice by slice.
Re: Session sets
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2018, 09:29:13 AM »

"Don't get me wrong, English tunes played by people who understand them and play them with feeling and sensitivity (and often a tad faster, and with a lot more oomph, like they were once dance tunes...) are brilliant -- but the genre has been sadly tarnished by players who don't get any of this and just churn out wall-to-wall dross learned from a book with a thousand tunes in, most of them boring and built from the same few note sequences bolted together, and played by people who often think slower is automatically more authentic."

Wow! Elitism isn't quite dead, then.
Logged
Edward
Windy Nook.
Hohner 114 in G. Hohner 1040 in C. International One Row 2 voice in D.  17 button 8 bass, bandoneon tuned, Squirrel with stops for both treble voices in C/F. Hohner (Pre-Corona?) in G/C/F, Hohner Corso in C/C#, Hohner Club 11 currently being converted from C/F to bandoneon tuned D/G, Ancient M. Hohner 2 voice 1 row in C. Plus projects and parts of projects.
http://ourluxorflat.blogspot.co.uk/

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1000
  • DG Pokerwork, DG Saltarelle Piroulet, CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Session sets
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2018, 11:07:20 AM »

What "English session" usually means is [...]wall-to-wall identikit umpy-dumpy English tunes played by people -- usually English -- who don't understand them, often play far too slow and with no life, and will take over a session with them played back-to-back given half a chance.
slower is automatically more authentic.

Another problem can be people who think they know best and insist on playing tunes so fast the life goes out of them and they become a clever sequence of notes, instead of the tune.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Steve Coombes

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
Re: Session sets
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2018, 11:10:35 AM »

So even though we all play the melodeon what is coming out is that there is a vast spectrum of tastes and abilities, and we are all striving to find what is perfect for us. Since perfection is hard to attain we must therefore make compromises while seeking to influence others to our way of thinking.
Elitism (perfectionism/passion) will give us highly talented individuals that are great to listen to sometimes and that will sometimes feel self indulgent.
Now talking about taste when at a whisky tasting a while back the guy in charge said that the more expensive the whisky the more defined in its type it got which may mean that to some people it just tasted worse than a cheap whisky. So musically speaking the point is that the more into a particular genre you get the less widespread will be its appeal.   
For taking part in I will gravitate towards friendly mostly English sessions where you can talk between tunes have one to two songs have the occasional foreign tune. We've even had poetry as part of an evening. Some people like old time music hall which isn't my thing but in a mixed session your never very far from something you do like.
Logged
Tommy D/G
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.