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Author Topic: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes  (Read 4899 times)

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Clive Williams

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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2018, 09:41:56 PM »

Thanks all for the contribs so far - some great new tunes to try there! Here's mine, which I've found genuinely difficult to learn...

La Candela, by Cyrille Brotto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZimjIGTQKKs

I'm a huge fan of Cyrille's playing, and I've wanted to play it for ages. Not as simple as it looks, and I'm using a box with 'cheat' basses - unisonoric, all chords in all directions, which makes things considerably simpler.

I apologise in advance for the somewhat simplistic improvisation sequence 3rd time round, but I think if you ever saw printed music for this tune it would literally say '3rd time round, mess around the chords however the mood takes you.'... so I've done my best. It's getting better, but I have reverted to my standard improv technique which is pretty much 'work your way down the octave'.

If you want to see how it should be played by someone who knows what they're doing, may I suggest Aurelien Claranbaux's sublime version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H3gTTAfNm8 and if you think it needs a box with tricked up basses, here's Aurelien doing it on a 2 row 8 bass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ixz29YPjIw . Cyrille and Aurelien - both geniuses in my book.

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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2018, 03:02:31 PM »

Here's my contribution to "New Tunes":

https://youtu.be/avxXRNJvUMk

This tune is new in a couple different ways. It was generated March 2017 by a computer model trained on 23,000+ ABC transcriptions from thesession.org. This tune appears on pg. 1,171 of The folk-rnn (v3) Session Book Vol. 1 of 4 (http://www.eecs.qmul.ac.uk/~sturm/research/RNNIrishTrad/folkrnn/folkrnnv3_vol1of4.pdf , 48 MB). I think the computer model in this case has generated a nice tune exhibiting appropriate and creative variation and contrast, functional cadences, and a memorable and playable melody. It's one of my favourites so far. Here's the version I play (I made a few changes, e.g., adding two endings to help with flow, and adjusting a few notes here and there):

T:1166
C: folk-rnn (v3) + Bob L. Sturm
M:4/4
K:Emin
GF|:"Em" E2GF E2EF|G2"D"AF  D2GA|"G" B2AB cBAG|
"Bm" F4 "C" E2EF|"Em"G2GF EFGE|"D"F2DF A2A2|"G"GFGA B2AG
|1"C"E2"D"B2 "Em"E2 GF:|2 "C"E2"D"B2 "Em"e2 Bc
|:"G"dcBc dcBA|"Bm"B2 "C" E2 E2cB|
"A" AGFG ABcA| "Em"G2"D"F2 F2GA|
"G" B2BA GFEF|"Em" G2"C" E2 "D" F2EF|
"C"GFGA BcBA|1"D" F2"Bm"D2 "C" E2 Bc:|2 "Bm" F2 "D" D2 "Em" E4:|

Feel free to have a look at 100,000 more computer-generated tunes here: https://highnoongmt.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/volumes-1-20-of-folk-rnn-v1-transcriptions/.
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Sebastian

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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2018, 04:58:33 PM »

Cool!  8) And fascinating! :o

I think the computer model in this case has generated a nice tune exhibiting appropriate and creative variation and contrast, functional cadences, and a memorable and playable melody.
I tried to harmonise it and had unusual problems, especially in the last half of the 2nd part. I have difficulties in finding a "normal" harmonic sequence/cadence for the tune.

The tune is nice, but I think it might lack a bit of melodic parallelism between the first and second halves of each part. There are more motivic ideas here than usual (at least in the tunes I normally play), and it seems as if the second half is made without much thinking of the first half, so that it has to find its way to the final point a-new and don’t use the ideas already present in the first half.

Also, the ending of the second part is oddly dissimilar to the ending of the first part. In the first ending it goes 3-2-3-4 5_ 4-3 | 1_ 5_ 1_. The final measure strongly reenforces the ending by the cadence I V I, the I sounding on the strong beats. The second ending begins in the same way 3-2-3-4 5... but than differs: -6-5-4 | 2_ 1_ 1_. The suspension 2 to 1 in the second ending is possible, of course, but the style doesn’t quite mach the ending of the first part.

What I try to say: I think, the system could use a bit more motive repetition in parallel locations of the first and second half of the part and between the endings of the first and second part.

(Of course, and that is strange, I would never "criticise" a tune in this way, if it would be a real trad tune, even if it would be the same tune, note by note. ;D )

Quote
It's one of my favourites so far.
I suppose you had to hear your way through a lot of nonsence to find this one.

Quote
Here's the version I play (I made a few changes, e.g., adding two endings to help with flow, and adjusting a few notes here and there)

Here is, what I came up with. I didn’t feel the need to alter the system’s original output, but only tried to put chords onto the melody (and to avoid to be overly creative):

X:1
T:1166
K:Emin
M:4/4
Q:1/4=145
M:4/4
GF | "Em" E2GF E2EF | G2AF "D7" D2GA | "G" B2AB "C" cBAG | "B7" F4 "Em" E2EF |
G2GF EFGE | "D" F2DF A2A2 | "Am" GFGA "B7" B2AG | "Em" E2 "B7" B2 "Em" E2 :: Bc |
"G" dcBc dcBA | "Em" B2E2 E2cB | "Am" AGAB "D7" cAGA | "G" B2D2 D2GA|
B2BA "Em" GFEF |"Am" G2G2 E2EF | "C" GFGA "B7" BcBA | "Em" F2E2 E2:|

https://soundcloud.com/weltsauerstoff/1166-conquest-of-brittany

In the first measures, the chords to choose are quite obvious, but later on they are less evident. (You changed the melody in the second half, therefore it is more difficult to compare the two harmonisations.)

Quote
Feel free to have a look at 100,000 more
If only the day had more than 24 hours.  (:)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 05:39:36 PM by Sebastian »
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boblsturm

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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2018, 06:39:51 PM »

Thanks Sebastian!

I tried to harmonise it and had unusual problems, especially in the last half of the 2nd part. I have difficulties in finding a "normal" harmonic sequence/cadence for the tune.

The tune is nice, but I think it might lack a bit of melodic parallelism between the first and second halves of each part. There are more motivic ideas here than usual (at least in the tunes I normally play), and it seems as if the second half is made without much thinking of the first half, so that it has to find its way to the final point a-new and don’t use the ideas already present in the first half.

Also, the ending of the second part is oddly dissimilar to the ending of the first part. In the first ending it goes 3-2-3-4 5_ 4-3 | 1_ 5_ 1_. The final measure strongly reenforces the ending by the cadence I V I, the I sounding on the strong beats. The second ending begins in the same way 3-2-3-4 5... but than differs: -6-5-4 | 2_ 1_ 1_. The suspension 2 to 1 in the second ending is possible, of course, but the style doesn’t quite mach the ending of the first part.

What I try to say: I think, the system could use a bit more motive repetition in parallel locations of the first and second half of the part and between the endings of the first and second part.

Here is, what I came up with.
https://soundcloud.com/weltsauerstoff/1166-conquest-of-brittany

That is great! Thanks for picking it apart. And your version sounds lovely! It is nice slower, and the B7 adds a nice character. Your version has quite a different mood from mine... probably close to what the computer was thinking. :)

I'm going to include your version in a "machine folk" session book I am assembling, with attribution of course. :)

It's one of my favourites so far.
I suppose you had to hear your way through a lot of nonsence to find this one.

Every time I venture into this massive collection I find something interesting quite quickly. There are clearly many failures, but even some of the failures can be entertaining, e.g., "The Drunken Pint": https://youtu.be/omHhyVD3PD8 (the model titled the tune itself). One musician with whom we are working estimates about 1 in 5 tunes are "surprisingly good" (https://www.inverse.com/article/32276-folk-music-ai-folk-rnn-musician-s-best-friend).
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Gary Chapin

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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2018, 09:39:36 PM »

(Of course, and that is strange, I would never "criticise" a tune in this way, if it would be a real trad tune, even if it would be the same tune, note by note. ;D )


I remember years ago working with a teacher back when I was playing flute. I was having trouble with one particular tune, very frustrating, I said, "This tune doesn't make sense!" His response: "Play it as if it does."
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2018, 10:01:00 PM »

I think Sebastian's reworking of the machine generated tune illustrates the real value of this technique: don't just play what the software generates,  but let it throw out ideas and then pick the best parts and edit to make a tune to your liking.
The purely human composing process works the same way too: start with the germ of an idea, then edit, revise and improve.

I remember years ago working with a teacher back when I was playing flute. I was having trouble with one particular tune, very frustrating, I said, "This tune doesn't make sense!" His response: "Play it as if it does."
Love it!  (:)
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2018, 12:07:59 AM »

I think Sebastian's reworking of the machine generated tune illustrates the real value of this technique: don't just play what the software generates,  but let it throw out ideas and then pick the best parts and edit to make a tune to your liking.
Hm, I did play the score exactly as the system has generated it (only adding standard chords for the LH side). So, there was no reworking by my part. (But maybe I didn't understand the term "reworking" correctly. Sorry, I'm not sure.) ???

And I doubt that this technique has any real (musical) value at all. I mean, it is not as if composers had shown a lack of creativity and needed a new stimulus to continue to produce entertaining variations on the seven notes of the scale. (:)
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2018, 09:37:46 AM »

I think Sebastian's reworking of the machine generated tune illustrates the real value of this technique: don't just play what the software generates,  but let it throw out ideas and then pick the best parts and edit to make a tune to your liking.
Hm, I did play the score exactly as the system has generated it (only adding standard chords for the LH side). So, there was no reworking by my part. (But maybe I didn't understand the term "reworking" correctly. Sorry, I'm not sure.) ???

Anahata may have been talking about my reworking. :)

And I doubt that this technique has any real (musical) value at all. I mean, it is not as if composers had shown a lack of creativity and needed a new stimulus to continue to produce entertaining variations on the seven notes of the scale. (:)

Completely agree. In and of itself, a computer spitting out transcriptions is a parlour trick. It's what one does with it when (musical) value arises. Tools like these can spur ideas and creative directions one hadn't thought to take before. They might be useful for teaching (my colleague is using it in one of his music courses). They might be useful for studying large collections of transcriptions. The research continues!
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2018, 12:18:09 PM »

Anahata may have been talking about my reworking. :)

I don't think I read either of your postings carefully enough  :|bl

I still think that (carefully selected) machine generated fragments could be part of the brainstorming phase of creating a new tune.
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2018, 02:27:18 PM »

...Feel free to have a look at 100,000 more computer-generated tunes here: https://highnoongmt.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/volumes-1-20-of-folk-rnn-v1-transcriptions/.

Thank you very much for posting this! I managed to get a more or less clean copy of the 23000 tune database a
while back, just to satisfy my curiosity. I've been wondering what the generated tunes would sound like but couldn't
see anything. I now have a handle on them.

I just tried noodling 1166 as a hornpipe on the concertina. Sounds OK to me.

Roger
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 07:57:39 AM by lachenal74693 »
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2018, 12:27:58 PM »

...Feel free to have a look at 100,000 more computer-generated tunes here: https://highnoongmt.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/volumes-1-20-of-folk-rnn-v1-transcriptions/.

Thank you very much for posting this! I managed to get a more or less clean copy of the 23000 tune database a
while back, just to satisfy my curiosity. I've been wondering what the generated tunes would sound like but couldn't
see anything. I now have a handle on them.

I just tried noodling 1166 as a hornpipe on the concertina. Sounds OK to me.

Roger

You are welcome Roger! I would love to hear 1166 as a hornpipe. Could I convince you to record and post?  :|||:
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2018, 05:09:11 PM »

You are welcome Roger! I would love to hear 1166 as a hornpipe. Could I convince you to record and post?  :|||:

I'm simply not good enough to record, and I don't have the facilities any way. I simply modified the ABC by adding
R:Hornpipe to the ABC posted here. It's not ideal, but you could do that and listen to the result to get an idea. (I can't
work out how to attach an MP3 to this post - the MP3 I managed to generate was too large). I've also PM'd you.

Roger
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2018, 08:42:26 PM »

I just tried noodling 1166 as a hornpipe on the concertina. Sounds OK to me.
Yes. When I today took a new look on the notes, I thought they looked as if the system had meant to made an hornpipe.

Anyway, it really is a lovely piece. I'm now tempted to change GF | E2 in the beginning to EF | G to parallel it with the opening of the second half, but I would loose the motive repetition in the beginning. Hm. ::)
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2018, 09:35:20 AM »

I just tried noodling 1166 as a hornpipe on the concertina. Sounds OK to me.
Yes. When I today took a new look on the notes, I thought they looked as if the system had meant to made an hornpipe.

Anyway, it really is a lovely piece. I'm now tempted to change GF | E2 in the beginning to EF | G to parallel it with the opening of the second half, but I would loose the motive repetition in the beginning. Hm. ::)

We find several human-made transcriptions at thesession.org having straight notation, but because of the dance the music accompanies, the musician knows how it should be swung or emphasised. That's why we try to be clear that our little computer model is not composing music, but rather generating transcriptions. They can only become music through a human. :)

Feel free to change 1166 as you see fit, and make it your own! :) I have done this quite a lot. A growing list of pieces with links to performances can be found here: https://github.com/IraKorshunova/folk-rnn
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2018, 09:55:53 AM »

"Waltz for Christine" written by the Anglo concertina player, Will Duke, for his wife. Played on my new toy a Wesson Clipper in D. A very different feel to my Florida made one row. The American box is like an American muscle car, all about raw power but a bit rough around the edges. The Wesson is more Aston Martin, plenty of power but also great handling and superb fit and finish.
https://soundcloud.com/tuftyabc/waltz-for-christinemp3
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2018, 10:19:24 AM »

Tufty's post and recording reminded me of another 'Waltz for Christine', this one written by Danish melodeon player Carl Erik Lundgaard Jensen.
It has become one of my favourite waltzes. Here's a recording I made a few years ago, played on a C/F Hohner Erica.

https://soundcloud.com/steve_freereeder/valsen-til-christine
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2018, 11:49:46 AM »

Here's a tune the Norwegian classical folk  musician (anomaly alert), Leif Goras, wrote for his daughter, Anna. I believe "visa" means certificate, but I don't know what the certificate was for. Could be anything from Level 1 Swimming to a degree. There  a few youtube videos of them playing this together.

I found the tune as a rather glorious nyckelharpa rendition with a very free tempo.  Leif plays it beautifully around the beat. At best, I hope my version falls somewhere in the middle. It's a lovely little tune, though. Just sorry I can'r do it justice.

https://soundcloud.com/greg-bradfield-smith/annas-visa

 
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2018, 01:42:47 PM »

Steve, that's a lovely waltz...... listening as I type.
and Greg too...... just clicked on yours.
Both lovely waltzes. Thank you chaps  (:)
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2018, 03:26:06 PM »

Here's a tune I used to play after first hearing Dave Whetstone's CD 'The Resolution'. Something dragged it back to mind and with a bit practice I've managed to come up with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkw0U8BbuI
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Re: Theme of the Month for January 2018: New Tunes
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2018, 05:55:49 PM »

"Visa" means just "song"   so this is a tune/song  to Anna.
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