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Author Topic: Increasing tremolo  (Read 1508 times)

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mselic

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Increasing tremolo
« on: January 08, 2018, 02:21:29 PM »

I'm considering a box that was originally tuned fairly wet, and then dried out. If I wanted to increase the tremolo again, would there be any issue? I'm not sure how much "back-and-forth" the reeds can take.
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C#/D Serenellini 233, Manfrini, Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and a few HA114s

melodeon

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2018, 02:31:52 PM »

What brand and age are the reeds. ?
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mselic

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 02:40:41 PM »

The reeds are likely Binci. Age is unknown, but I suspect the box was built within the last ten years.
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C#/D Serenellini 233, Manfrini, Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and a few HA114s

Lester

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 02:44:37 PM »

Assuming it is MM+ the non-pitch reed will have been tuned down to reduce the tremolo and could be tuned back up to increase it again. But you do have the opportunity to go for Viennese tuning and tune the pitch reed down to increase the tremolo. Just a thought.

mselic

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 02:53:57 PM »

Thanks, Lester. Normally, on 4-stops (like this one) I wouldn't do the M-M+ tuning on account of wanting the option of choosing LMH, LH, etc, but in this particular case the stops are fixed.
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Lester

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 02:55:49 PM »

Thanks, Lester. Normally, on 4-stops (like this one) I wouldn't do the M-M+ tuning on account of wanting the option of choosing LMH, LH, etc, but in this particular case the stops are fixed.

Ah!

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 03:19:05 PM »

I'm considering a box that was originally tuned fairly wet, and then dried out. If I wanted to increase the tremolo again, would there be any issue? I'm not sure how much "back-and-forth" the reeds can take.
The reeds can take a surprising amount of 'back-and-forth' tuning, as you put it.
From your subsequent posts it will be the M+ reeds which you will need to sharpen to increase the tremolo from 'dried out'. It actually doesn't take too much filing of the tip of the reed tongues to do this. Just go carefully and keep testing so that you don't go beyond where you need and have to flatten again ('yo-yo' tuning as I describe it!  :o ).
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mselic

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 03:27:27 PM »

Thanks, Steve. I have to admit that I'm still rather inexperienced and hesitant to sharpen reeds; filing of the reed tip has me concerned as I'm not sure the best hand tool to use and also concerned about upsetting the reed's position in the opening. One tuner I spoke with says she prefers to use a dremel tool for the reed tips, and a scratcher for the lower part of reed. I realize this has been discussed at length elsewhere so I won't get into it here.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 03:50:23 PM »

Thanks, Steve. I have to admit that I'm still rather inexperienced and hesitant to sharpen reeds; filing of the reed tip has me concerned as I'm not sure the best hand tool to use and also concerned about upsetting the reed's position in the opening. One tuner I spoke with says she prefers to use a dremel tool for the reed tips, and a scratcher for the lower part of reed. I realize this has been discussed at length elsewhere so I won't get into it here.
I really would not recommend a dremel on the tip of the reed:
(a) it can so easily remove too much steel
(b) there is the risk of catching very tip of the reed tongue and creasing it.
(c) it's noisy and takes time to run up to speed.

To change the tremolo, you only need to remove minimal amounts of steel. My preferred tool is a flat profile 400-grit diamond file but a very fine Swiss-type needle file will do very well too. Or you can make your own file by gluing a thin strip of 400-grit carborundum wet-or-dry paper to a thin strip of wood e.g. a lolipop (popsicle? in US) stick.

I've also used carborundum-faced fine nail files used by professional manicurists. These usually have a thin flat wooden centre. It's easy to cut the nail file into thin strips using an old pair of scissors.

As always, go gently and carefully and you will be OK. When filing, make sure the reed tip is supported by a thin metal shim.
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Theo

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 03:52:50 PM »

I think we should be careful about criticising the choice of tools that tuners use.   I have my personal preference, but it is the results that count and as the old saying goes there is more than one way to skin a cat.   Ask around among people who have used your tuner.   Are they happy with the quality of work?
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gettabettabox

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 04:15:15 PM »

I think lester's advice is worth considering especially with fixed stops. With full 4 voices, dedic in the midst sounds nice to my ears, I have one tuned so by 'manning musical.'
You likely have an original reedbank which could be eased down a touch?
I would also be inclined to keep the tremolo, at the most, moderate. It depends of course, how you plan to use it?!  :||:
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mselic

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 04:20:51 PM »

If anyone has examples of the LMMH sound with Dedic tuning, I'd love to hear it. Generally I like a drier sound, but I'd be interested in having one 4-stop box with a little more "bite" to it with slightly wetter tuning.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 04:30:28 PM »

If anyone has examples of the LMMH sound with Dedic tuning, I'd love to hear it. Generally I like a drier sound, but I'd be interested in having one 4-stop box with a little more "bite" to it with slightly wetter tuning.
Having re-read your previous post, I see that you mention the stops are fixed. So using voice combinations of LM, LH, etc, are not options.
In this case, Dedic tuning might well be a feasible and easier option.

Assuming your M+ reeds are just slightly sharp, you could flatten the Mo reeds to make them M- which (a) would increase the tremolo and (b) be easier to do than sharpening the M+ reeds still further.

Dedic-tuned L0 M- M+ sounds OK (e.g. on a three-voice box where there is only the single stop to control the L reed), so I think fixed Lo M- M+ Ho voices will sound good too. You could always try adjusting a couple of reeds in the middle of the keyboard range and see what the resulting sound is like. If you like it, go ahead and do the rest.
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tirpous

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 04:39:57 PM »

This is an Acadian with M reeds tuned +5/-5 (nominally).  You won't hear it here (video is with all 4 voices) but it also sounds fairly good with only LM-H or LM+H reeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLpyKy3TCw
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 08:36:35 PM by tirpous »
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Theo

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 04:52:39 PM »

This is an Acadian with M reeds tuned +5/-5 (nominally).  You won't hear it here but it sounds fairly good with LM-H or LM+H reeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLpyKy3TCw

Where is my dancing partner!
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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mselic

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 05:46:18 PM »

This is an Acadian with M reeds tuned +5/-5 (nominally).  You won't hear it here but it sounds fairly good with LM-H or LM+H reeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLpyKy3TCw

Where is my dancing partner!

Seconded! Is that you playing, by chance?
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tirpous

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Re: Increasing tremolo
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 08:34:29 PM »

Yes.
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