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[Winston Smith]

I expect it would be loud, Mark. I'm certain that the more solidly the reed is anchored, then the louder and clearer it will sound.
(We're well off-topic here!)

[boxcall]

By the way..it is obvious  MELODIE's joint is not a mitre.. it would be great if there was a spline in there but the cutesy wood corners that are glued on are similar to "end to long grain" just as is a butt joint.  Certainly more work and a step up from a butt.
However, strength will still need to come from an interior corner block.

It looks like it might be, at least according to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2kqMvqwXdg

I should have said "accordion to this video"....

Looks like it, with corners knock off then added corner piece. This is how the beltuna is done as you know and makes sense because mitre joint are prone to chipping at the outer edge depending on wood type. Mitres are good but can be difficult to assemble. Box joints and dovetail are great but time consuming. A joint used in drawer construction ( usually at the back edge sometimes at the front)would be good , make saw cut (dado) in the short sides and rabbet the long side of casework of box. It would give the look of a butt joint from side but it would be way stronger as it has more glue area and makes assembling easy and you wouldn't need a corner block. You could buy router bits that do both profiles for this but woulnd't need too, it could be done with straight and or rabbeting bits.

I'm thinking of
Bits like this http://www.rockler.com/drawer-lock-router-bit

Even better than a mitre
http://www.rockler.com/rockler-45-deg-lock-miter-router-bits-1-2-in-shank
These can be use on 3/8" stock and bits profile boths sides with the same bit. After getting things setup it's pretty easy to do.

I think as far as "production shops" goes,  any maker is going to want to do as many pieces and parts as possible because it takes time to set things up and this only makes sense. I would think even small shops would do as much of this as possible.  Bottom line is how it plays and sounds in the end.

[playandteach]

I hope you will excuse this interruption. I'm not playing at the moment, and that may cause a certain lack of sympathetic tone. I have many old fashioned watches which I love for their soul and craftsmanship in a bygone era. But that time has passed (no pun intended). Surely what we care about is the response of the reeds in their setting, with the physics working well enough for the sound to resonate with an even sound on push and pull and a sound that grabs us.
Agreed that all of that being equal we would also like certain aesthetics to also be in place, such as a wrap around grain. There are many examples of professional instruments where the prototype no frills instrument is better than the final production line product. Close your eyes and take in the sound, then pick it up and feel the mechanics and response, then pick the aesthetics.
I have seen many beautiful toys, and a few ugly wonders.

[melodeon]

Box call..   that joint jig/tool is the setup I have.
That is a much better corner joint than a butt or a simple miter.

However, I have another idea which I will try out once I get to a stopping place.

Wrap around grain.. and same board for both sides of the instrument.    someone might pass on Castagnari's every day workmanship and wood choice to Saltarelle.  : )

" I have seen many beautiful toys, and a few ugly wonders."  "Yuppie junk": looks good and doesn't work.

Best accordeon (2 row 3 reed)  I ever played was a plain Jane birch and beech and cheap pine wonder... . Mitered corners, light as a feather. No frills. Thumb groove was a fancy as it got. Italian made, pre "merchandizing era".

[-Y-]

How many times are we going to have to suffer this bogus argument?

I'm discovering there is actually an argument about joints in accordion. 

It is an expedient "production" method. Professionals do not use butt joints.

Looks like you're omitting the history behind the use of such joints in one-row melodeons. It was (and for many builder still is) involving a lot of makeshift work and tinkering, in imitating the early german models. Some may even consider that it's now part of the tradition and that a "proper" Cajun box would have to be built that way. Of course it doesn't matter much beyond aesthetics (no influence over the sound quality, and the load applied to our instrument isn't a matter of concern). But I remember having read in another forum that the relatively poor build quality (all things considered) of some Louisiana-made boxes were one of the reasons leading R. Ouellet and S. Vézina to launch their own production. I don't know much more than that but most of the Québec makers do not use butt joints anymore.

[Theo]

And even the cheaper mass produced boxes from Saxony all have mitred corners, at least all the ones I've sen are like that.

[melodeon]

Yes, cheap Saxon boxes had mitered corners. And some culture of makers in the US say they copied Monarchs, Globe etc. Not so.

Many of the Chinese made boxes have mitered corners.

[boxcall]

My cheap Silvetta one row has mitered corners, it probably wouldn't be a half bad box if it had better reeds and or if it was set up better. The action is not bad at all and bellows aren't bad other than cheap bellow tape.
So mitres don't make the box better by looks or time attention to detail alone.
Speaking as a home builder,
Good materials with poor quality builders or good builders with poor quality materials can't make a good quality home, although a lot of homeowners think putting in good material makes for a good product, not always. Especially this day and age where there are a lot of specialized trades that don't see the complete picture of how all the components work together, my findings.

[Winston Smith]

pre "merchandizing era"

Or, in other words, "When products from the best available manufacturers weren't all priced well beyond the reach of ordinary everyday folk" (?)

[melodeon]

That's it.

When quality and customer service were paramount and profit was a given if the quality and customer service was there. Quality product and service first, profit secondary. 

Now it's all about "features" such as the number of cup holders, and "name branding", and customer service is  "your call will be answered by the next available agent, your wait time is 28 minutes", then obnoxious music, then someone garbles off something and hangs up on you. Or makes promises, takes your money, lies about the delivery date several times,  sends you something you didn't order, argues that they do not make what you ordered, then when you return the product they cheat you out of $500.

Look at Martin guitar or Levis for examples of new age nonsense.. it's all about production and capitalizing off of a former reputation for excellence.

No, I don't want a crustacean on the bellows, I want mitered corners, thank you.

I like folks who do what they say they will do when they say they will do it. Clement Breton is such a person.

[-Y-]

I don't know when is the period you refer to as the time when quality and customer service were paramount, but on the whole, if we compare the production quality of melodeons between now and, say, 20 to 30 years back, I'd have to say it's generally increasing.
I may be biased by being French and by the local history of folk music there, but I've the feeling we've made giant steps towards better and better accordions. True, there are still mishaps here and there (from what I can gather, you paid the costs of such mishaps yourself), some brands are not that honest about who makes their models, and there are far too many professionals selling overpriced crappy Chinese accordions. But on the other hand, a melodeon player never had more choice now than ever before. You can go for a small craftsman that makes personalized models to family-owned factories or huge production factories that make every standard variation available in a short time. You basically can go for the look you want, the feel you want, and the options you want. Which wasn't the case for the generation before mine.
If you look at the situation in France (sorry, I don't think we're the centre of the world, I only prefer to speak about things I know), we have more and more quality craftsmen entering the market (to name a few : Clément Guais, Antoine Errotaberea or Tania Rutkowski), that provide a choice for all tastes. And these people do not make melodeons for a profit. In fact they barely make a living out of it. Most of these makers have made extreme choices in terms of what they are selling. Be it only two voices, only a wood sound board, or radical look, and so on. While they are happy to respond to customer demands, they will not change what gives their accordion their personality. Even if it means not having mitre joints  . (and I'm not saying butt joints are a quality feature there).

TL;DR : I don't buy the alarmist talk, I would say that even now, quality and customer service are the norm.

[mselic]

Does anyone know how long a period of time Clement Breton made accordions for? According to his Facebook page, he has retired from box making some years ago and his hobby is now airplanes (flying I'm assuming, not making). Does anyone know how many accordions he actually made? I think the number is fairly low, somewhere in the range of 50 maybe. I could be wrong - that's just the number that I've heard thrown around by people.

[tirpous]

In the book 'Opus - the making of musical instruments in Canada', published in 1992, they said he had been building for 10 years and had made 20 boxes in his spare time.   

[triskel]

My cheap Silvetta one row has mitered corners, it probably wouldn't be a half bad box if it had better reeds and or if it was set up better. The action is not bad at all and bellows aren't bad other than cheap bellow tape.

I used to deal with the (BGK) factory that made Silvetta, and visited them in Brunndöbra (Klingenthal) several times, but it was a frustrating experience. There was an old, retired, man (Mr. Glass) who made good prototypes for them that worked, but then (I later learned) the place was run on subsidies as a training course and "Schaumanufaktur" (Show Factory) visitor attraction, and the standard of "workmanship" from the trainees just wasn't up to the mark at all.

For example you could slide a feeler gauge under their glued-down laid-flat reedblocks (which should have been impossible), and if I specified those blocks should be 5mm deep (for tone and response) they'd actually be 7, 8 or 9mm deep - which ruined the sound/response and the whole concept!

And when I asked them to put larger buttons on their Deutsche Harmonikas (10-key melodeons) for me, which should have been a very simple matter, even Mr. Glass said it would not be possible - which was utterly ridiculous!

The awful thing is that the best of melodeons had been made in that very factory, until the 1930s...

[boxcall]

My cheap Silvetta one row has mitered corners, it probably wouldn't be a half bad box if it had better reeds and or if it was set up better. The action is not bad at all and bellows aren't bad other than cheap bellow tape.

For example you could slide a feeler gauge under their glued-down laid-flat reedblocks (which should have been impossible)


The awful thing is that the best of melodeons had been made in that very factory, until the 1930s...

Mine has two stand up reed blocks.
Like I said the action is pretty good, internal springs and yes small buttons, they almost got this part right Cheap fondo some composite with picture of wood and I'm not sure what kind of reeds, maybe they make those?


So is this where the Globe and Monarch's were made then?

Sorry for drift

[mselic]

If anyone is curious to hear the Breton boxes in action, there's a few links of them being played by Denis Pepin, Philippe Bruneau, Suzie Lemay and Mario Veillette, respectively:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-eViH5hyc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPaJRWVR1AE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKzqCQuJdEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh9UQdWh3PE

I know Gaston Nolet has a few of his boxes, but I've yet to find a video of him playing one.

[Pearse Rossa]

Some great melodeon playing displayed there!

[-Y-]

Great music, thanks mselic.

[triskel]

I'm not sure what kind of reeds, maybe they make those?

Sadly that factory became insolvent at the end of 2009, but they certainly did have the capacity to make reeds because I was shown the grinding machine in action, and reeds being assembled.

The awful thing is that the best of melodeons had been made in that very factory, until the 1930s...

So is this where the Globe and Monarch's were made then?

It was the old Royal Standard factory, and made very high quality melodeons that were played by champion players, but I have my suspicions about another brand being produced there too...  (There are certainly pointers that suggest a close relationship, and both firms were owned by Leipzig merchants, but proving anything is another story.)

[Pearse Rossa]

... The Beltuna may be the stronger box, but I much prefer the Breton...

Can you clarify what you mean please?
Do you mean 'stronger' in terms of construction or volume?