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Author Topic: Clement Breton box  (Read 7253 times)

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mselic

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2018, 08:55:14 PM »

... The Beltuna may be the stronger box, but I much prefer the Breton...

Can you clarify what you mean please?
Do you mean 'stronger' in terms of construction or volume?

Sure.  I do mean 'stronger' in terms of volume and overall presence. It takes less effort to produce volume with the Beltuna than the Breton.  The Beltuna sounds very full-bodied with only a small amount of effort, whereas the Breton would take more work to produce the same volume.  I wouldn't describe the Breton as weak, just different; the Breton can do subtle and mellow better than the Beltuna, IMHO.  The Beltuna is air-tight and feels like a powerful engine.  The Breton flows a little more easily and has charm.

In regards to construction, they are both very well built, although I consider the Breton to be a much nicer looking box, with a tremendous amount of care and attention put into it by the maker.  The Beltuna, as fine as the casework is, is a factory-built box with much less regard for details.  I've seen a few other Beltunas where virtually no effort was made in matching wood grain, etc and it really stood out.

A big thing for me are the springs for the pallet levers; the Beltuna has scissor-type springs that rest under the keys, and the Breton has coil-springs that are attached to a little screw at the base of the pallet, and I MUCH prefer the feel of the latter.  I never knew until recently what the difference was, but every box that I tried that had coil-springs always felt better to me.  It gives the keys a more "snappy" feel which I find very satisfying and easier to play with.
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melodeon

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2018, 11:57:15 PM »

I do not know how many boxes M. Breton made, but mine was numbered #31.

As to the Beltuna box..
I admittedly have not played one.

They look production designed and made. Wood is average and often mismatched, some other details which I shared with Matt when he sent me a picture of his Beltuna.  ( sorry for slagging your box ! )
Some have Binci reeds, others say they have something else.
Unfortunately the US distributor is .. (withheld) and the customer service is not at the forefront of the business.
I can buy one from Canada for far less than in the US.  But I don't feel like taking a chance.

What I really don't like is the over accentuation on embellishment to the chassis.. Cheezy at best.. I don't like it. Either CNCd or lazered ... absolutely incongruous with the rest of the box and un necessary.  Save the time/money and put it into the guts. And bag the design on the bellows, please.  ( Other makers take note... designs on bellows.. particularly attempted images of the corporate logo or initial of the brand or animate objects etc ..tacky)

Just my opinion.

Look at classical guitars and Martin guitar pre commercialization... no logo on the headstock. Now Martin uses the company script in what is called "NEON"

I did not buy an accordion form a maker  in the So P...    because he wanted to put a billboard sized name plate on the front of the instrument.. I said none or on the back. Would not budge. No sale.

Note that my Clement Breton had no script or badge or name or emblem anywhere on it.

 

Clement Breton's boxes are just plain cool.  And I do like the ballsiness of the sound and playbility.  Not at all delicate as with some mother makers.  This is a players box.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2018, 12:41:26 AM »

A big thing for me are the springs for the pallet levers; the Beltuna has scissor-type springs that rest under the keys, and the Breton has coil-springs that are attached to a little screw at the base of the pallet, and I MUCH prefer the feel of the latter.  I never knew until recently what the difference was, but every box that I tried that had coil-springs always felt better to me.  It gives the keys a more "snappy" feel which I find very satisfying and easier to play with.

In the event that you might want to adjust the action, I think that angled springs are much easier to work
with than coil springs...but that's a subject for another day I suppose, and of course if you are satisfied with
things as they are, it's entirely academic!
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boxcall

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2018, 01:38:12 AM »

I do not know how many boxes M. Breton made, but mine was numbered #31.

As to the Beltuna box..
I admittedly have not played one.

They look production designed and made. Wood is average and often mismatched, some other details which I shared with Matt when he sent me a picture of his Beltuna.  ( sorry for slagging your box ! )
Some have Binci reeds, others say they have something else.
Unfortunately the US distributor is .. (withheld) and the customer service is not at the forefront of the business.
I can buy one from Canada for far less than in the US.  But I don't feel like taking a chance.

What I really don't like is the over accentuation on embellishment to the chassis.. Cheezy at best.. I don't like it. Either CNCd or lazered ... absolutely incongruous with the rest of the box and un necessary.  Save the time/money and put it into the guts. And bag the design on the bellows, please.  ( Other makers take note... designs on bellows.. particularly attempted images of the corporate logo or initial of the brand or animate objects etc ..tacky)

Just my opinion.

Look at classical guitars and Martin guitar pre commercialization... no logo on the headstock. Now Martin uses the company script in what is called "NEON"

I did not buy an accordion form a maker  in the So P...    because he wanted to put a billboard sized name plate on the front of the instrument.. I said none or on the back. Would not budge. No sale.

Note that my Clement Breton had no script or badge or name or emblem anywhere on it.

 

Clement Breton's boxes are just plain cool.  And I do like the ballsiness of the sound and playbility.  Not at all delicate as with some mother makers.  This is a players box.

To each there own (some people like cheese, Theo? (:)) I get compliments all the time on how nice my Beltuna looks and when my teacher played it his first comment was that it feels really well built. I don't think the CNC area stands out that much. There may be a piece of wood that doesn't match on mine depending on the angle that it's viewed from (it's wood after all this effect can happen when different sections are taken from the same piece of wood). They do put quality in the inside from what I can see, your not going to get better slide systems metal not wood that sticks also locking cams that keep them in place and they are adjustable if needed. The reeds in mine are Artigiana, blocks and other components inside look really good. Bellows are also very good ( I'm not crazy about logos either but I suppose as a maker I'd want it on there). I think the corners are done nicely and it doesn't have the metal corners (which I don't think look that great) most of the good quality makers these days are not using them, (say but a few to cover their BUTTS) although it's a good discreet place for a logo. I think the method of pallet attachment is good also it looks cleaner, although they must use some kind of tape to cover the attachment point. It had falling off mine ( I bought it second hand and it was off already) I fixed it with some birch banding which match the pallet material quite well.
I've also dealt with the person who is the US distributor for them ( different box) He was some what accommodating but didn't really give me what I ask for, just close to it. The person I bought the Beltuna from got it from him. So I know where your coming from with that business.
All of the above is just my opinion and experience of course.
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mselic

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2018, 05:12:27 AM »

Apart from it being an excellent box to play, the Beltuna design does have some very nice features as you mentioned (locking stops, rounded corners...) but it also has a few drawbacks.  The flimsy gold tape that covers that pallets is an inexcusable travesty and yes, it peels off in no time exposing the waxed-on pallet arms.  I think the newer ones may have done away with the tape...The mismatched wood seems to be fairly common, as I've noticed it on several boxes.  None of the above were deal-breakers, but they were noticeable.  Some people really like the look of them. In general, they really are better than most one-rows you'll come across.  They were originally intended as affordable models for students in Quebec, but somehow they took off from there and became something different (ie. NOT affordable!)  They're not trying to be an old-school 10-key "melodeon"; it's more of a modern take on an old idea.

The Breton? Now that's old school... >:E
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melodeon

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2018, 02:07:15 PM »

Mechanics are one thing, aesthetics are another. Attempting to "create" an aesthetic  commonly results in  failure.
Let the wood and fittings be what they are.  I, too, like cheese, but gimmee Stilton, or Monterey Jack  or genuine Italian varieties but don't create one for visual appeal.

As to my observations of the Beltuna ( based on photos to include Matt"s), were I  able to buy one without the lazered schlup. and matched wood, and all wood pallets no gilding etc and with top tier Binci reeds and Padauk with (please) no contrasting white wood stop knobs and no emblem on the bellows, and so on... I would consider one.. I suspect without all that stuff, it may be less money.

Why is there no one creating a simple box with high quality design, materials and workmanship throughout to include an air button in the right place and a thumb groove. ?
Too bad Clement Breton is not still building his "charm" boxes.
Gaillard used to make two versions of the one row. This was many years ago when there was a 120 day wait period and very low prices. As I was moving, could not order. Now he no longer makes them. Price is not a deterrent to purchase.

I am now aware of 6 players who have switched from Castagnari to the Beltuna melodeon to include some famed players.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:25:40 PM by melodeon »
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-Y-

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2018, 03:46:18 PM »

Why is there no one creating a simple box with high quality design, materials and workmanship throughout to include an air button in the right place and a thumb groove. ?

What do you think of Kay Albrecht one-row melodeons ?

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2018, 03:54:53 PM »

....I am now aware of 6 players who have switched from Castagnari to the Beltuna melodeon to include some famed players.

Having sold a Castagnari Mory and subsequently regretted the sale, I had a brief flirtation with a Beltuna Alex 3 (the equivalent three voice 2.5 row). The Alex 3 had a lovely creamy sound and was very well made. But oh so heavy! Noticeably more than the Mory. I had the Alex 3 on a medium term approval period, so it went back fortunately with no financial loss.

Not long after that I acquired a replacement Mory and have never looked back.

So I switched from Castagnari to Beltuna and then switched back again.
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Simon W

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2018, 03:56:49 PM »

Why is there no one creating a simple box with high quality design, materials and workmanship throughout to include an air button in the right place and a thumb groove. ?


There's always these beauties
http://www.melodeons.com/gallery
I'm sure a thumb groove could be added.

Simon
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2018, 03:58:16 PM »

What do you think of Kay Albrecht one-row melodeons ?
Very nice indeed and beautifully made. But only available in LMM voicing and I much prefer the standard LMMH voicing. The H voice gives the sound that extra 'bite'.
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Steve
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boxcall

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2018, 08:56:34 PM »

Apart from it being an excellent box to play, the Beltuna design does have some very nice features as you mentioned (locking stops, rounded corners...) but it also has a few drawbacks.  The flimsy gold tape that covers that pallets is an inexcusable travesty and yes, it peels off in no time exposing the waxed-on pallet arms.  I think the newer ones may have done away with the tape...The mismatched wood seems to be fairly common, as I've noticed it on several boxes.  None of the above were deal-breakers, but they were noticeable.  Some people really like the look of them. In general, they really are better than most one-rows you'll come across.  They were originally intended as affordable models for students in Quebec, but somehow they took off from there and became something different (ie. NOT affordable!)  They're not trying to be an old-school 10-key "melodeon"; it's more of a modern take on an old idea.

The Breton? Now that's old school... >:E

I like your old school!!
True the tape on pallets is poor design, I just used the banding material, cut pieces to fit and iron them on, it worked great and they haven't move since. And like I said they blend right in, also pallet arms are glued on on mine. The mismatched wood is no big deal on mine it's not that far off and the average person would never notice. It's like a carpenter going into a house even if it looks great you could find something to criticize if you look hard enough.
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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2018, 09:59:12 PM »





I "stand" firm that perching one's self on top of a production built accordeon (more specifically a butt jointed accordeon)  is no testament to its quality. It's an excuse.
....or "showmanship" which was a veiled point I was making.
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melodeon

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2018, 02:49:27 PM »

Yes, I got that.

What you can't do with skill, do with charm;
If that doesn't work.. try BS.

And that is an excuse for butt joints.

I am glad someone else has seen, and  understands, the Barnum and Bailey of standing on an accordeon.

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triskel

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Re: Clement Breton box
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2018, 04:50:00 PM »

I am glad someone else has seen, and  understands, the Barnum and Bailey of standing on an accordeon.

Yes, people do see that, and the "circus" of your objections to butt-jointed melodeons too. Only if you're going to stand on top of a box built like that it's going to be stronger (with two columns supporting a beam beneath you) than a mitre joint, though not if the instrument was laid on its side...

Butt there's nothing wonderfully strong about mitre joints, in fact failed ones (even with reinforcing blocks on the insides of them) are the bane of my life and I'm weary of the subject after more than 45 years of gluing them back together again. :(

What I always say to people choosing an instrument is that the main consideration should be "Do you like the noise it makes?" and (much as I like to see beautiful materials well-put-together) that should be what really matters if what you want is to play music on it.

Hence (for me) this Globe "Gold Medal" (in D, and with original factory tuning) is a thing of tremendous beauty, and the perfect melodeon, because it has the authentic sounds of both John Kimmel and Peter Conlon within it:
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