Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Finger control  (Read 9115 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jaz East End Gal

  • New Starter
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: Finger control
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2018, 05:54:59 PM »

thanks for the tips especially hand exerciser which I have just ordered. Having now retired and joined a folk orchestra am playing more than ever, have noticed some loss of strength in finger especially little finger so hopefully this will do the job. 
Logged

byteofthecherry

  • Good talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
Re: Finger control
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2018, 10:54:00 PM »

thanks for the tips especially hand exerciser which I have just ordered. Having now retired and joined a folk orchestra am playing more than ever, have noticed some loss of strength in finger especially little finger so hopefully this will do the job.
What ever you do stick with it..it will take time..when you get it you will see how weak & non- independant your fingers are..start with three 'depressions' for each finger  do this five times..swap hands..repeat..rest..then repeat..do it watching TV/reading a book/driving(you'll only mainly do LH)..also sometimes leave it a couple of days to rest the hand, it will take you 4-6 months, but once you develop a routine it's great as is scales in 3rds  along rows & then start working out Xrowing scales in 3rds..six months..your good to go..Tex-mex(you might not like it) is worth watching as is a lot of south- american style.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:57:52 PM by byteofthecherry »
Logged
1 X Corona II(ADG)..1X Early 'Darth Vader' Corona IIIR (Eb/Bb/Ab)..2 X Erica(DG/CF)..1X Club VictoriaX(CF)..1 X Club II(Bb/Eb) 4 X Liliput (DG(red)/BbEb(purple)/GC(purple)..2 X preciosa(D/G(green)/Bb/Eb(Grey)+ lots of guitars/banjos/saxes/brass/synthy 'stuff'

Eshed

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
Re: Finger control
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2018, 11:48:11 PM »

Since I have short arms and small hands, I've been using 4 fingers when the bellows are more closed and 3 fingers when they're more open as my little finger can barely reach the F (C in D/G I think) button.
I've noticed I sometimes do a part using 4 fingers and then the repeat with 3 fingers without even thinking, even when the bellows are not that open. I suspect my brain prefers to be on the safe side and not miss a bass note.

Currently I put the band on the back of my hand but I tried the wrist position and it didn't seem to be very helpful. Not having a joint behind the corner of the instrument is a bit painful to the forearm and that's without talking about how my playing deteriorated (and it wasn't that good to begin with).
Logged
Do you have a Hohner from 1934-1945 with a serial number on?
Send me a private message or comment on the German Accordion Problem spreadsheet to improve the statistics of the project and get an estimate of the production date of the box if it is not known.

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Finger control
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2018, 09:11:28 AM »

just a thought - there are two schools of thought on how to attach the melodeon to the person - one strappers and two strappers and I am a strong advocate of the latter method  but am well aware that it is not for everybody.

To get to the point  If using two shoulder straps the    the wrist through bellows strap is only used to work the bellows  but not in any way to contribute towards the support of the box.  If using one strap it is probably more difficult to put the wrist through the bellwos strap as ?perhaps the fingers just coming over the top for the bass in some  way contributes to the stability of the box?

just a thought???

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9107
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Finger control
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2018, 09:47:42 AM »

just a thought - there are two schools of thought on how to attach the melodeon to the person - one strappers and two strappers and I am a strong advocate of the latter method  but am well aware that it is not for everybody.
There are three schools of thought 2 straps, one strap, and thumb strap

To get to the point  If using two shoulder straps the    the wrist through bellows strap is only used to work the bellows  but not in any way to contribute towards the support of the box.  If using one strap it is probably more difficult to put the wrist through the bellwos strap as ?perhaps the fingers just coming over the top for the bass in some  way contributes to the stability of the box?

just a thought???

george
Not sure I agree that a single strapper uses the left hand to support the box any more that a two strapper does

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Finger control
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2018, 09:56:05 AM »

I've always angled the box slightly so the bass end is very slightly down, to allow gravity to assist the opening of the bellows.
No idea where I picked that up from.... ( is that wrong, should it be horizontal? )
Therefore despite being a confirmed 2 strapper, the wrist strap does take a bit  of the weight when operating and especially closing the bellows.
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4929
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Finger control
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2018, 10:32:08 AM »

Hmm, I suspect we could come up with a few more strap possibilities, between us and then there's playing sitting down.

I wondered about this so I had a go a few options. It doesn't matter what I do, I cannot get anywhere near the bass buttons on the 12 bass    sunless I bury my hand up to the wrist.

I think the optimum left hand position must be a function of physique and box size.
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Taswindjammer

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
  • taswindjammer
Re: Finger control
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2018, 11:50:27 AM »


I wondered about this so I had a go a few options. It doesn't matter what I do, I cannot get anywhere near the bass buttons on the 12 bass    sunless I bury my hand up to the wrist.

I think the optimum left hand position must be a function of physique and box size.
[/quote] Sorry Greg still haven’t worked out how to handle quotes.

I raised the matter of the supplementary strap on 5th Feb. Have today made a strap from double sided Velcro 48cm long with a button stud on one end. This plugs into the vacant bellows strap stud at the base of the box. Wrap around the wrist & secure via the Velcro. Works a treat.
Better still this is the first time I have been able to comfortably reach all 12 bass buttons on my Hyde.
Also used the strap on my newly purchased Castagnari Nik.Quite comfortable.

I’m going to continue with this setup for now.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 11:53:07 AM by Taswindjammer »
Logged
Hyde c#/d/g, Castagnari Nik d/g, Hohner b/c/c#, c/c#, c. anglo concertina

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Finger control
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2018, 11:58:32 AM »

Twas just a thought   and I agree with Lester in that I also don't know whether or not one strap or two makes a difference to playing the bass????

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

Howard Jones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1117
Re: Finger control
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2018, 12:38:47 PM »

So much depends on the size and weight of the instrument, the size of your hands, the number of bass buttons... It is a very personal thing and there can be no one answer for everyone, you have to work out for yourself what works best for you.  I've noticed that my left hand is further through the strap when I'm playing my 12-bass G/C then when I'm playing smaller and lighter 8-bass instruments.

The same goes for using 3 or 4 fingers to play basses.  There is a certain neatness to using 4 fingers to match 4 pairs of buttons, but plenty of 3-finger players can attest that it's not a handicap to playing complex stuff on the basses.  If your only problem is lack of strength and control over the little finger then this will come with more practice, but if you're really not comfortable with using 4 fingers then perhaps think again about why you're trying to do this.

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Finger control
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2018, 01:06:29 PM »

I agree with Howard, there are a huge amount of variables.
Also, as a 2row/8bass player I do wonder if I need to use my weaker little finger as I use my three to good effect but agree it is ultimately neater and appeals to me greatly!
The other evening I tried loosening the strap, as previously discussed, and also played around with using 4 fingers.
I was surprised how it came to me but my biggest hindrance was not reaching for the C bass but my preference for using my ring finger ( 4th ) and middle finger ( 3rd ) when pulling an Am or pushing a Bm ( no box in hand so think I've got that right ). Hadn't thought that would be a problem!
Maybe I'll go back to trying 4 fingers...... maybe!
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Finger control
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2018, 05:35:37 PM »

Um..... Back home and had a quick squeeze.
I find I do use my second and third finger when playing Am and Bm, it's just that it feels strange when trying to play with 4 fingers. The whole rotation and feel of my hand changes, it's not just the reach for the C bass.
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Brian Wyneken

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: Finger control
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2021, 04:53:34 PM »

So much depends on the size and weight of the instrument, the size of your hands, the number of bass buttons... It is a very personal thing and there can be no one answer for everyone, you have to work out for yourself what works best for you.  I've noticed that my left hand is further through the strap when I'm playing my 12-bass G/C then when I'm playing smaller and lighter 8-bass instruments.

The same goes for using 3 or 4 fingers to play basses.  There is a certain neatness to using 4 fingers to match 4 pairs of buttons, but plenty of 3-finger players can attest that it's not a handicap to playing complex stuff on the basses.  If your only problem is lack of strength and control over the little finger then this will come with more practice, but if you're really not comfortable with using 4 fingers then perhaps think again about why you're trying to do this.

Looking for a discussion on "finger length" or "finger size" brought me here. I'm a beginner (so a little hesitant to assert opinions) who purchased an 3 row Hohner Panther on-line (without really any idea what I was buying - and then pretty much left it in the case) a few years back, and then more recently did an in store purchase of a more boxy shaped DG Delicia Popular. As some tunes are more easily played on the Panther, and some on the Delicia, I believe I have concluded that this is a result of a somewhat complex combination of (1) my hand and finger sizes, (2) the distances between the air button and floor end of the basses in the two instruments, (3) the larger bellows on the Panther (need fewer shots of air) and (4) and (perhaps mainly) Panther feature of a beveled corner on the left side to reach the basses. An example is that on the Panther, playing with four fingers is feasible, but I would say not likely possible for me on the Delicia.

With now knowing this I wish I would have paid closer attention to the dimensions and distances in purchasing this second box. I sort of felt rushed in the store as a COVID exception was allowed (they were not yet typically allowing customers). I plan/hope to make a more serious purchase after about a year of practice. Anyway, this is just a comment I thought other novice purchasers might find useful.
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4929
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Finger control
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2021, 09:06:18 PM »

For what it's worth, I think if you play it more your fingers and brain will learn to adapt to the differences and you'll forget you ever had a problem with key spacing.
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Peadar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1939
Re: Finger control
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2021, 12:09:51 AM »

Interesting thread.....funny how a thread revival can just catch the stage you are at. Taking a side long glance as always - On a Vienna Box I really haven't got beyond two fingers (1st & 2nd)- On a German Type 1 row- 2 fingers:(1st and 4th). On a German Type Semi-tone box - 4 fingers (4th & 1st) for the outside (3rd & 2nd) for inside.
Over the last few months I have become relatively comfortable cradling rather than gripping the growl box in my left hand, and in spite of small hands the pad of my thumb just seems to land on the air spoon when it's needed (at least some of the time). Playing basses on these (4 bass) boxes is more like ringing a peal of only four bells than it is to playing a harmonic accompaniement. your fingers don't actually go anywhere- they just stay resting on the spoon keys till you really need them.
Logged
Why should the devil have all the best instruments???

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Finger control
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2021, 04:29:17 PM »

For what it's worth, I think if you play it more your fingers and brain will learn to adapt to the differences and you'll forget you ever had a problem with key spacing.

tgotally agree!

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Finger control
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2021, 04:43:50 PM »

on a 1.2. or 3 row melodeon / button accordion  any lenght of fingers should easily reach all buttons ----provided they are free to do so!

Opinion on how to keep the keyboard stable seems to be divided more or less 3 ways

1.use two shoulder straps on 2 or 3 row boxes so the right hand plays absolutely no part in keeping the keyboard steady, the thumb can rest gently on the edge of the keyboard ( to locate the hand rather than to steady the instrument)  and the fingers are free to fly around according to the dictates of the particular tune being played

2. use a thumb longish strap  so the thumb can be easily held against the edge of the keyboard whilst in the thumb strap  , leaving the fingers to fly about as necessary

3. keep the thumb UNDER the keyboard  so the rest of the fingers have the dual function of hanging on to the keyboard (the so called death grip)  whilst not making a very good job of flying around the buttons as needed.

my personal preference is number 1 for 2 or 3 row boxes irrespective of size and weight  and number 2   for  a one row  playing seated
 
each to his own of course but I would recommend beginners to try all 3 before making a adecision.

george

























!











1               












1






1





































1























































1
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9107
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Finger control
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2021, 05:04:21 PM »

3. keep the thumb UNDER the keyboard  so the rest of the fingers have the dual function of hanging on to the keyboard (the so called death grip)  whilst not making a very good job of flying around the buttons as needed.
But having the thumb behind the keyboard does not require you to use fingers to hang onto the keyboard. The single strap prevents the melodeon going left (from the players point of view) and the palm of her hand prevents it going right, all the time allowing the fingers to fly around the buttons as required.

Jesse Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 726
  • Buffalo, NY, USA
Re: Finger control
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2021, 06:27:43 PM »

3. keep the thumb UNDER the keyboard  so the rest of the fingers have the dual function of hanging on to the keyboard (the so called death grip)  whilst not making a very good job of flying around the buttons as needed.
But having the thumb behind the keyboard does not require you to use fingers to hang onto the keyboard. The single strap prevents the melodeon going left (from the players point of view) and the palm of her hand prevents it going right, all the time allowing the fingers to fly around the buttons as required.

I agree, the keyboard should be braced by the "heel" of the hand, not gripped by the fingers or thumb. Also, there's no need to stay locked into one position. You can put your thumb on the edge in order to play a particularly stretched out passage, and then bring your thumb behind the keyboard when you want to give a bit more oomph to a beat, etc.
Logged
Hohner Pokerwork D/G (x2!), Hohner one row four stops in D and C, Hohner Presswood C/F.

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Finger control
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2021, 08:23:50 PM »

I play a 4.3kg 3 row and generally use weight of box, and thumb in keyboard groove against a single rt strap to stop wobbles. It works fine, with occasional transfer to heel of hand if I need … other fingers in play, not sure why I do that, it just happens!

I do play in all 3 rows, generally legato  and 3/4 at least on the pull however. A good French player (of bass clarinet) once advised that I move my rt wrist too much. But I get by.

“If you play that style” then … I find this works just fine. It you like 2 straps … it doesn’t matter?

I think I’d be in there with the death drip at times in any furious 2 row session tunes.

@George. What an expansive post! 😉 Don’t understand those ‘1’s?

« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 08:25:50 PM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal