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Author Topic: Making more noise  (Read 2187 times)

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Rog

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Making more noise
« on: February 16, 2018, 06:16:34 AM »

Suggestions on how to up the volume on a box a) without changing the reeds and b) without amplification (:)
The one I am looking at is hard work so my first thought is to improve the air flow.

Winston Smith

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2018, 06:51:55 AM »

Would that include increasing the volume of air, Roger?
 
I've a little on-going project waiting for me when I get back home, and I'm thinking that (as I've no idea of how much volume to expect from my Frankenstein development) I'll have several settings for the amount of air that can pass over the reeds.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2018, 09:00:21 AM »

Suggestions on how to up the volume on a box a) without changing the reeds and b) without amplification (:)
The one I am looking at is hard work so my first thought is to improve the air flow.
Take the grille off.

(Audience noises off) Open the box! Take the grille off! Open the box!
You need to be a certain age to understand this... ;)

Seriously - taking the grille off usually results in increased sound volume and may even out sound differences between rows. Often, the inside row is slightly muted, due to more restricted pallet opening angle and sometimes masking by the grille margins. However, removing the grille also puts the pallets and lever arms more at risk to accidental damage so you need to be a bit careful with storing/carrying/playing the instrument.

It's worth removing the grille as a test though. You may find that there is such an improvement in air flow that it then becomes worthwhile looking at the grille cloth. If it is a closely woven mesh or cloth, it can be beneficial to change it for something with a much more open weave which will allow more air flow and often more sound volume too.

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Chris Rayner

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 09:05:09 AM »

Perhaps you could try fitting some of those charming little trumpets they attach to Steirisches Harmonikas and Heligonkas.  Mind you, those usually have enormous reeds as well.

Perhaps you could try a programme of weight training.  The principal source of sound is from the energy transmitted from your arms to the reeds via the air forced over them from the bellows.  Minimal increments in volume might be available from removal of decorative grilles etc. but I doubt that much short of installing bigger/more reeds will alter the volume much. 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 10:18:50 AM by Chris Rayner »
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Elderly amateur musician hoping to stave off dementia by learning to play the melodeon.  Main instrument a Tommy, also D/G and G/C pokerworks,  a single row 2 stop Hohner, and a new addition to the free reedery, a rather splendid Paolo Soprani four voice 120 bass c-system chromatic button accordion.  Very shiny, very loud, and about the same size and weight as a small car.  Now I’ve traded me Benny with (ahem) a cash adjustment, to a three voice 60 bass Castagnari K3.

Anahata

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 09:08:27 AM »

Perhaps you could try fitting some of those charming little trumpets the attach to Steirisches Harmonikas and Heligonkas.
Be advised, before taking this too seriously, that they serve no acoustic purpose at all.

Varnishing the interior wood surfaces will brighten the sound and might be worth a try.
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Lester

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 09:37:34 AM »

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 09:45:43 AM »

Press more buttons at once.
Not being facetious (this time).
I have a friend who always made my pokerwork sound louder than I could. I finally realised that this was why.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 09:50:57 AM »

Steve, did you know that Michael Miles was dead?
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george garside

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2018, 09:53:33 AM »

quite some time ago I thought my boxes could do with being able to  sound louder - 2 hearing aids solved the problem completely  and has the bonus of being able to turn the treble and bass up or down independently!

In genereal terms though I have always considered boxes form pokerwork to castagnari to be loud enough for all normal purposed   eg morris, session, somebodys front room or whatever. When playing on stage, like most people, I play  about mid range ( to enable me to do louder and softer) and let the sound system do the work - no point in having a dog and barking yourself.

george
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george garside

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2018, 09:58:39 AM »

a box often sounds quieter to the player than to those listening as the sound  fires out forward for the treble  and sideways for the bass

george
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gettabettabox

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2018, 10:00:57 AM »

Theory of mine and no doubt a target drone on here...
Minimal wax, plastic valves and ....Hohner tacks! (:)
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Chris Rayner

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2018, 10:15:32 AM »

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Elderly amateur musician hoping to stave off dementia by learning to play the melodeon.  Main instrument a Tommy, also D/G and G/C pokerworks,  a single row 2 stop Hohner, and a new addition to the free reedery, a rather splendid Paolo Soprani four voice 120 bass c-system chromatic button accordion.  Very shiny, very loud, and about the same size and weight as a small car.  Now I’ve traded me Benny with (ahem) a cash adjustment, to a three voice 60 bass Castagnari K3.

Chris Rayner

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2018, 10:16:53 AM »

Perhaps you could try fitting some of those charming little trumpets they attach to Steirisches Harmonikas and Heligonkas.
Be advised, before taking this too seriously, that they serve no acoustic purpose at all.

Varnishing the interior wood surfaces will brighten the sound and might be worth a try.

Heaven forbid that any of my suggestions be mistakenly taken seriously.😳
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 10:19:18 AM by Chris Rayner »
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Elderly amateur musician hoping to stave off dementia by learning to play the melodeon.  Main instrument a Tommy, also D/G and G/C pokerworks,  a single row 2 stop Hohner, and a new addition to the free reedery, a rather splendid Paolo Soprani four voice 120 bass c-system chromatic button accordion.  Very shiny, very loud, and about the same size and weight as a small car.  Now I’ve traded me Benny with (ahem) a cash adjustment, to a three voice 60 bass Castagnari K3.

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2018, 10:19:36 AM »

Steve, did you know that Michael Miles was dead?
I'd heard Mafeking had been relieved too...
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Theo

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2018, 10:27:14 AM »

Serious suggestions in increasing order of difficulty:

Check that both ends of reed block are fitted firmly.
Check that the fondo and reed block base are both perfectly flat and fit without gaps.
Fit firmer gasket under reed block.
Increase button travel = increased pallet lift.
On highest reeds - turn the reed plates so the reed tongue is nearest the vent.  Often the highest two or three reeds are like this anyway, but you could try turning one more.  If it makes a difference to volume it may also sharpen the pitch.
Enlarge the vents in the base of the reed block and enlarge the holes in the fondo to match.  You can even open out the two holes ion the fondo into one oval hole.  This is sometimes done to get more volume where pallet lift is poor.
Glue the reedblock to the fondo
Use thinner material for reed block sole plate and fondo.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2018, 10:29:14 AM »

Well done, that man! (You knew, of course, what I was after.)
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Rog

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 11:23:30 AM »

Great! Thanks. First thing I did was check flatness of blocks/fondo (ok). Removed the grille and that did seem to improve, so I plan to improve air flow into grille. The bass side has tiny little holes so next thing will be to remove to check improvement (and maybe make a few more holes). Pallet travel as suggested by Theo had crossed my mind but only fleetingly (thanks Theo). Had not thought of enlarging holes in block/fondo. In fact two of the four blocks are already glued in (the outside two). The body look like it is made of chipboard or similar, making it heavy and I assume deadening the sound as well. But taking off the grille immediately made it louder. If I can improve air passage it might improve the playability.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 11:25:04 AM by RogerT »
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WestOz

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Re: Making more noise
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 02:42:41 AM »

"Perhaps you could try fitting some of those charming little trumpets the attach to Steirisches Harmonikas and Heligonkas."
"Be advised, before taking this too seriously, that they serve no acoustic purpose at all."

I tried the little trumpets on a Pokerwork - I concur with Anahata - they serve no acoustic purpose.
I also tried a large horn - type arrangement - improved "directionality" of sound, but not volume.
Removal of the grille seems to have the greatest volume improvement.
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