Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: John Lavelle box  (Read 845 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
John Lavelle box
« on: February 25, 2018, 12:12:21 AM »

I came across an ad on craigslist for a John Lavelle box Paolo soprani in D/C#. I wish I lived closer to give it a go !! Plus seller (Robert) wants the green stuff  (:) so one would have to travel to buy it.
I saw some info on John (RIP) on his site and it appears he is playing a different PS box, so could this have been his? I saw in another thread Triskel mentioned a friend that has his box in the area where this box is located.
It would be nice to compare this to my OBD for playability and sound.
Triskel do you know this box?
The link
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/d/paolo-soprani-c-accordion/6500652112.html


Here the one on john Lavelle music site below.




edit:  Theo, If this should be in general discussion please move it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 01:01:38 AM by boxcall »
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3168
  • Learning all the time...
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 04:31:48 AM »

I saw in another thread Triskel mentioned a friend that has his box in the area where this box is located.

Aragh! I tried to do a deal on it when they were living in Ireland, but they're selling it now are they...  :-\

Quote
I wish I lived closer to give it a go !! Plus seller (Robert) wants the green stuff  (:) so one would have to travel to buy it.

I wish I lived closer too (if only to see Robert again), and I wish I had the green stuff...  :(

Quote
I saw some info on John (RIP) on his site and it appears he is playing a different PS box, so could this have been his?

I believe it's the same box, and John did too.
Logged

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3168
  • Learning all the time...
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 03:02:09 PM »

I believe it's the same box, and John did too.

Though I also believe it was converted to D/C#, and not made that way, as I've said before:

John Lavelle had a 23 button D/C# stock Paolo?

No, I've mentioned in another thread that I've examined John's 2-coupler one, which now belongs to a friend of mine in Vallejo, and concluded that it had been converted - seeing that the amount of beeswax on the reedblocks was WAY more than the factory would ever have used.

I'd suspect the story was probably similar with his 9-coupler Paolo Soprani.

The only "stock" D/C# Paolo Soprani boxes I've ever seen have been 19-key, 4-bass models - and I've had two of those. In fact I'm presently restoring this one that came from North Shore, Boston:


Whilst Colm Gannon has this one now:

Logged

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2018, 05:00:57 PM »

I believe it's the same box, and John did too.

Though I also believe it was converted to D/C#, and not made that way, as I've said before:

John Lavelle had a 23 button D/C# stock Paolo?

No, I've mentioned in another thread that I've examined John's 2-coupler one, which now belongs to a friend of mine in Vallejo, and concluded that it had been converted - seeing that the amount of beeswax on the reedblocks was WAY more than the factory would ever have used.

I'd suspect the story was probably similar with his 9-coupler Paolo Soprani.

The only "stock" D/C# Paolo Soprani boxes I've ever seen have been 19-key, 4-bass models - and I've had two of those. In fact I'm presently restoring this one that came from North Shore, Boston:


Whilst Colm Gannon has this one now:

Ok thanks, yes I saw that thread where you mention the conversion to D/C#. The only reason I asked was it looked different to the one he is holding in the photo I posted, where that one seems to have white areas on the bass end, could just be the lighting. and of course like many of us you just can't have one ;)
In some of the videos on his page He is playing a Serenellini, which sounds pretty nice and maybe is easier to play?
I'd like to get something like that (wish that was for sale) when I have some extra green stuff (:)

Both of those boxes in the photos would be nice also, I can't imagine you'd send yours back home (to the North shore) when you get it done (:)
Where on the North shore did it come from? If you don't mind saying.

In Jerry O'Brien's bio it stated that He lived in Beverly farms and was doing carpentry in the area before getting the gig in town at the music store. I've said before I'm a carpenter / home builder working in the same area.

You know the OBD I have, so do these PS boxes have better actions similar to the one row "pepperpots"? I like the lightness of them and on those two rows you posted the buttons being the same size on both rows. Although the spacing looks similar to my OBD, you get use to it, but there are times when it can be a stretch. The spacing on my PS one row is similar to the OBD.
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3168
  • Learning all the time...
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 07:51:59 PM »

The only reason I asked was it looked different to the one he is holding in the photo I posted, where that one seems to have white areas on the bass end, could just be the lighting. and of course like many of us you just can't have one ;)

Yes, that's just the way the light is catching the flat sides, a reflection.

Quote
In some of the videos on his page He is playing a Serenellini, which sounds pretty nice and maybe is easier to play?
I'd like to get something like that (wish that was for sale) when I have some extra green stuff (:)

I've no idea what's become of that Serenellini, but you never know, it might become available.

I sold Joe Derrane a D/C# Serenellini, when he was in Dublin not long after making his comeback, but it had to be switched over from C#/D and I was getting them made for me with what I can only describe as a "reverse, reverse action" to favour the inside row. It would have been better if I'd had it made specially for him, with a regular direct action that favours the outside one.

Quote
Both of those boxes in the photos would be nice also, I can't imagine you'd send yours back home (to the North shore) when you get it done (:)

I'm hoping I'll manage to hang onto it, I've had to sell too many nice boxes lately. :(

Anyway, you're in the best possible place to find another one... ;)
 
Quote
Where on the North shore did it come from? If you don't mind saying.

I don't know, I traded it for a banjo with a guy who's wife is from Boston, and he often finds instruments and brings them back.

Quote
... do these PS boxes have better actions similar to the one row "pepperpots"?

NOTHING is as light as those one-row "pepperpots"...
Logged

pgroff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1490
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2018, 09:31:11 PM »


I sold Joe Derrane a D/C# Serenellini, when he was in Dublin not long after making his comeback, but it had to be switched over from C#/D and I was getting them made for me with what I can only describe as a "reverse, reverse action" to favour the inside row. It would have been better if I'd had it made specially for him, with a regular direct action that favours the outside one.




triskel,

Last I heard, Hugh O'Rourke had a well-played Serenellini 3 voice, 3 stop box in D/C#. His has the "reverse action" you mention, that I first started to see on some Saltarelles - in other words, the box was optimized for a bright sound from the inside (C#) row, because the pallets for that inside row of melody buttons open up further from the keyboard.

I made the same observation that you did, triskel - for D/C# tuning on a box of this type, with 2 rows of pallets on the soundboard, you'd be better off with the traditional action that favors a brighter, rawer sound from the buttons on the outside row.  At the same time we looked at Hugh's Serenellini box, Ted McGraw had his Beltuna Sarah 3 voice box in C#/D, and that one had the traditional action with the C# row brighter!

It's very possible that Hugh's Serenellini DC# is the same one that you sold to Joe Derrane - I'll ask Hugh, next time I see him.  Really, that box would make a very nice C#D by switching around the reeds.

PG
Logged

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 02:56:26 AM »

Anyway, you're in the best possible place to find another one... ;)
Eyes open and fingers crossed.

Good to hear about the reversed action , something to steer clear of in a D/C# box.


Paul, I'll be seeing Jack sometime this week or early next, I will tell Him hello from you.
And thanks for answering the question I had email you about, good suggestion as usual.

Michael
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3168
  • Learning all the time...
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 04:17:54 AM »

So people can see what we mean Paul, here's the mechanism of a box (my 4-voice Casali) with what I'd describe as a (regular) "direct action":


This 4-voice Paolo Soprani (which just happens to be the John Lavelle one ::)) has what I'd describe as a (regular) "reverse action", where the outside row is still "direct" but the inside row pallets are hinged ("cantileverd") from the outside edge of the box, to get more "lift" on them:


And then:
... I was getting [Serenellinis] made for me with what I can only describe as a "reverse, reverse action" to favour the inside row. It would have been better if I'd had it made specially for him, with a regular direct action that favours the outside one.

This is one of those Serenellinis (that's had a hard life :(), with the inside-row pallets acting directly on the outermost reeds, and the outside row pallets "cantileverd" and acting on the innermost reeds:


And how I meant to describe it was as a "reversed reverse action"... :-\
Logged

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3168
  • Learning all the time...
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 04:24:30 AM »

Good to hear about the reversed action , something to steer clear of in a D/C# box.

You may well find that Serenellinis sold in in the US have normal direct actions in them, or regular reverse actions, neither of which would be an issue in a D/C# - it's only the reversed reverse action that'd be an issue for you and work better in a C#/D...
Logged

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 01:43:40 PM »

Thanks for posting those picture's Triskel, that makes it clear. I thought that's what you were implying with the inside row buttons operating the pallets farthest away from keyboard. (Paul explained it quite well also.)
Seeing a picture is good though!
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

KLR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 572
  • Kevin Rietmann
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 12:25:12 AM »

Does the Serenellini approach completely fix muffling?  I've never had a box whose inner row wasn't a bit shy, if only a titch.  There must be a complete solution, eg bayan players.  I don't think someone shelling out $20k for an instrument is going to be satisfied with half measures, eh?
Logged

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 01:38:53 AM »

I don't think completely fixing the problem but shifts it around so now the outside row would be less volume as those buttons operate the pallets that are closest to keyboard with this action.
If I understand this correctly.
I should defer to triskel.
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3168
  • Learning all the time...
Re: John Lavelle box
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 03:18:08 AM »

Does the Serenellini approach completely fix muffling?  I've never had a box whose inner row wasn't a bit shy, if only a titch. 

I'll start a fresh thread about this, hopefully tomorrow.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.