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Author Topic: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.  (Read 1683 times)

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Falconer

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Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« on: March 04, 2018, 04:02:42 PM »

I am a newbie and have been listening to as much diatonic button accordion music as I can - especially in the keys of GC and DG. I notice that Castagnari and Loffet accordions for the most part seem to have what I would simply call a much more refined "Hohner" sound. But there are some instances when I come across players that are achieving a totally different sound to my ears. I would describe it as buttery, or something akin to hornets buzzing in a hive. I am wondering if anyone here knows how this is achieved. A couple instances would be Paul Young playing what I assume is a Loffet at a ceilidh in the Northeast of England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s2sD1UNklA and Thomas G playing a Serafini in this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIrhNiF8o1A.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 04:19:11 PM »

The Thomas G is miked on the bass side as well as the treble, and it sounds like Paul Young also has a bass mike. This added to the long held bass notes, help to give that sound.

SJ
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george garside

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 04:40:37 PM »

 I think its more down to the way paul is playing the bass  i.e. with little bursts of rhythm followed by chords held  over  a group of treble notes .  There is also ayoutube of him playing sally gardens  with a much more staccato bass.

george
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AirTime

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 04:45:52 PM »

I'm not sure what you are referring to - neither of those recordings sound unusual to my ears.  Dryish tuned on the treble side (ie little or no tremolo) ... & as George says chords held over a group of treble notes, which may be the "buzzing" you mention.
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george garside

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 04:58:04 PM »

 AirTime, have just noticed that you have a 'pistelli'  presumably the name sounds less vulgar in its country of origin!

george ;D
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Stiamh

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 05:13:47 PM »

I suspect that the different sound is simply because both boxes have a low voice on the treble side, MML.

GPS

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 05:56:57 PM »

I suspect that the different sound is simply because both boxes have a low voice on the treble side, MML.

I agree absolutely. 

Incidentally,(thread drift alert!) the "Belgian Tune" caught my attention because it's closely related to a tune I picked up many, many years ago from a Flemish folk dance group. If I recall correctly, they used it for a broom dance. If I can find time I'll do a quick recording of the tune as I learned it and post it in a separate thread.

Graham

Sometimes I wonder at my own stupidity! It is, of course, a fairly distant cousin of the "Berendans" {Bear Dance)!  In which case, how did that Broom Dance tune go.......??
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 06:06:00 PM by GPS »
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tirpous

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2018, 06:11:19 PM »

Quote
I suspect that the different sound is simply because both boxes have a low voice on the treble side, MML.

Agreed, that and the dryish (swing?) tuning.
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AirTime

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 06:17:29 PM »

I suspect that the different sound is simply because both boxes have a low voice on the treble side, MML.

"Buttery"  & "buzzing" seem like sort of opposite characteristics.  The buzzing is perhaps the drone effect of holding the note on the bass side. The buttery could be anything. To me, it implies drier tuning & also a less "reedy" sound. It seems to me that, in general, Castagnaris are more buttery & Saltarelles more reedy ... but it does vary from box to box. I don't, in general, hear LMM as more buttery than MM ... but whatever - it's all in the ears & brain of the listener.
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Stiamh

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 07:25:16 PM »

Is this the difference in sound? Watch the video below between 4:21 and 5:00

https://youtu.be/Gdkb4o7R3-Q?t=4m21s

pete /acorn

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 07:39:13 PM »

I know Paul and I think the box he is playing is a Saltarelle.
As others have said,you are hearing a box through speakers and  in a large room recorded on probably a phone not a true indication of the actual box sound
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Falconer

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 08:04:58 PM »

Hmmm. I watched the video "Choosing an accordion for Irish Music II. Yes, I hear something similar there when he plays LMM. Michael R. suggested what I'm hearing might be LM. And yes, I see how some of the effect is coming from droning on the basses through many notes. This is another video that struck me as having the pleasing buzzing sound to the notes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KwJzViwWqw. The owner, PAF135, is droning his bass notes also, but the individual notes also have a smooth, buzzy quality.
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boxcall

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2018, 08:25:32 PM »

I know Paul and I think the box he is playing is a Saltarelle.
As others have said,you are hearing a box through speakers and  in a large room recorded on probably a phone not a true indication of the actual box sound
Pete,
That would be this box then, looks like a two voice, I don't see any switches.
The buzzing only starts when he kicks in with the bass to my ear.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOUQTrXabFo
Hearing the first video the OP posted it sound more like a three voice but that is probably the large room as you say.
Looks like he also plays a Loffet and other boxes also.
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Stiamh

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 09:38:04 PM »

In this clip he is playing a Loffet with a L voice that he brings in partway through.

Back to Belgian tune clip - never mind the buttery sound: I'd love to be able to call a dance while supplying the music at the same time. In fact I'd love to be able to say more than three words together while playing! Fair play to you Paul Young!

pete /acorn

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 10:25:55 PM »

Don't know if it is that one but he does have an older Saltarelle.

Re playing and doing other things,Paul is a stand in musician in my two daughters band, www.fiddlerswreck.co.uk.
Marie plays accordion and Nicky Fiddle,they regularly can be seen playing,keeping an eye on the dancers and chatting all at once
Michael also calls and plays concertina

« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 10:27:46 PM by pete /acorn »
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Andy in Vermont

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2018, 03:02:35 PM »

After listening to these clips, I think I know the sound you are referring to, which I would describe as “buzzy.” I believe it has something to the way the octaves are tuned but I also would like someone to explain it!

I know Paul and I think the box he is playing is a Saltarelle.
As others have said,you are hearing a box through speakers and  in a large room recorded on probably a phone not a true indication of the actual box sound
Pete,
That would be this box then, looks like a two voice, I don't see any switches.
The buzzing only starts when he kicks in with the bass to my ear.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOUQTrXabFo
Hearing the first video the OP posted it sound more like a three voice but that is probably the large room as you say.
Looks like he also plays a Loffet and other boxes also.

Falconer

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2018, 08:22:33 PM »

Thanks Paul. I watched the Andy Cutting video and yes he has the buzz going on the right hand and the growl going on the left. And John Spiers has something similar going on with Jiggery Pokerwork. I understand the number of factors you discuss. Interesting that it does not have anything to do with the tuning. But I assume we are talking about a dry tuned box - so that we don't have a lot of undertones throwing off the stacking of the notes.
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Rees

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Re: Puzzled on How a Certain Buttery/Mellow Sound is Achieved.
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2018, 08:29:41 PM »

Yes, it works best on a dry tuned box. It's common to use the same techniques with tremolo tuning which produces more of a shimmer than a buzz.
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