Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Microvox musings  (Read 2137 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Andy Next Tune

  • aka Andy Wooles
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1078
  • Melodeon with Accidentals? Make a PI Claim!!!
    • www.shavethedonkey.co.uk
Microvox musings
« on: March 11, 2018, 03:38:08 PM »

I was changing the battery in my Microvox Mini PSU, which I use as a backup, and it occurred to me how little there actually was in that plastic box.

There's a jack socket attached to a small circuit board with the battery holder, and the circuit board is wired to two phono sockets at the other end.

Which made me think that the important stuff could easily be re-installed in the bass end of a melodeon, instead of the plastic box. Has anyone tried this?

Also, it would then make sense for the bass mic to be mounted inside the bass end as well. Would that work or would the mic get 'swamped'?

Externally there would just be one jack socket and one phono socket to connect the treble end Microvox.

Any thoughts?
Logged
Andy, from the now ex-County Palatine of Cheshire

Caring for a European community of melodeons from France, Italy, Germany, Wales and Suffolk!

Cooper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 695
  • Gaillrd G/C/#,Casta Allain8 GC,Lofft CF, giord ad
    • Cooper's homepage
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2018, 03:56:22 PM »

i am going to follow this thread :-)
W
Logged
Please correct my English, it's been a while, and i like to learn.
And don't be so polite! I know i must be typing tons of stuff that a native speaker would say differently...please enlighten me.

www.wouterkuyper.nl
www.lirio.nl
www.trekzakacademie.nl

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6359
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 07:42:56 PM »

I have a Microvox mic in my Oakwood mounted inside the bass end, but it's right next to an air hole, so it's acoustically almost the same as outside and over an air hole. If you put it anywhere else inside the bass end the sound is very boomy and woolly and certainly not what I wanted.  And it might overload the mic too, because the sound pressure would be higher.

I did have all the electronics inside the melodeon once,  including mixing treble and bass mics, the battery and a wire inside the bellows from trebvle to bass. I discontinued it after I discovered the treble mic was distorting - not sure if it always did or whether it was an ageing effect. Now I either use an SM57 on a stand, still with the Microvox bass end mic,  or (usually now) a pair of Thomann CC75s.

Externally there would just be one jack socket and one phono socket to connect the treble end Microvox.

And a phono cable going from one end to the other which gets annoyingly in the way, I find...

Anyway, what you describe can be done, but it involves rather invasive hacking of the box which in retrospect I wouldn't recommend or want to do again.

It is quite easy to clone the Microvox battery box. I made one with an XLR connector, balanced output and DC blocking capacitors so it doesn't care if somebody sends phantom power down the cable. I considered making one that actually used the phantom power and didn't need a battery; that's certainly possible too but I never actually built it.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.barleycoteband.co.uk

Andy Next Tune

  • aka Andy Wooles
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1078
  • Melodeon with Accidentals? Make a PI Claim!!!
    • www.shavethedonkey.co.uk
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 10:14:52 AM »

My possible 'target' box is an Erica which has already undergone significant reworking/customisation (stripped of its celluloid & varnished, re-reeded by Microbot in bandoneon tuning, new keyboard). So a couple of discrete holes in the bass end would be acceptable.

I hadn't thought about running a mic cable through the bellows from the treble mic, but I think that could be a lot of hassle for a small benefit. But I'll think it through a bit more.
Logged
Andy, from the now ex-County Palatine of Cheshire

Caring for a European community of melodeons from France, Italy, Germany, Wales and Suffolk!

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6359
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 04:04:42 PM »

I hadn't thought about running a mic cable through the bellows from the treble mic, but I think that could be a lot of hassle for a small benefit.

It's actually quite hard to do. You need a lot of cable to cope with bellows fully opened, and then it has to be prevented from getting trapped in the lower bellows folds when you close them. I think I ended up with a serpentine wire taped to several inner folds, and you'll need an internal connector each end in case you need to separate the bellows from either end.

Yes, if you are going to experiment, a far-from-original Erica would be a good choice.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.barleycoteband.co.uk

benammiswift

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • Squeezing for Derbyshire
    • benammiswift.co.uk
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 05:33:47 PM »

I've got a similar thing in my box internally whilst its not a microvox is a very similar system involving a Panasonic WM-61A Electret condenser capsule and a few components to power it with a 9v battery that just lives inside my box. Then you use a stereo 1/4 Jack and connect the positive of the circuit to one sleeve and positive of battery to the other sleeve so when you insert a regular mono 1/4 jack they connect and it powers itself up automatically, Just thing is it can be done at like £30 price range and is the best bass mic I've ever used, in fact I use it for recording the signal is so clean.

You could potentially put a microvox system internally but to be honest I wouldn't. I'm not a fan of the capsules or the power supply really, and you'd be destroying about 80 odd quids worth of mic kit to do a worse job than 30 quid in components and a hour of soldering, but as I say if you wanted to put it internally to avoid soldering much it could be done.

The key is mic placement, the best place is on the inside of the bass plate at the bottom facing up the plate, this way no air is blowing at it and it's a way away from the air button.

To get the jack out i just filed the inside of the flower on my castagnari's bass plate and put it there but a similar thing with a plastic gromet and a drill could be done in one of the standard holes on the Erica.


Please disagree with me though if you have another angle on it, just my thoughts and I like a good discussion

EDIT - My system is bass only, I use a gooseneck for the left hand
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 09:48:21 PM by benammiswift »
Logged
Castagnari Handry 18

Rob2Hook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2278
  • Castagnaris, Hohners & Baffetti
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 08:08:23 PM »

That sounds very like the system fitted to a Dino Baffetti 3 voice I used to own.  The model was the forerunner of a Saltarelle, whose name escapes me for the moment.  Anyway, it had the internal battery holder (behind the grille) with stereo jack to apply the voltage to the electret capsules - 3 on the treble side and a single on the bass.  There was also a volume pot fitted.  The wire from the bass capsule was a serpentine through the bellows, secured to alternate folds, but unfortunately no connectors fitted which made internal work somewhat tricky and delicate.

I was interested in the comments about the bass capsule orientation, seems to make sense.  I'd also be tempted to try one in a proximity mount, as that is supposed to make it omnidirectional whilst the small gap across the face of the capsule should prevent wind noise (hopefully).

Rob.

Logged

pete /acorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
  • .Cast Trilly
    • Acorn Instruments
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 09:02:24 AM »

Ive just had a Sennheiser system fitted into a piano accordion for a customer.The box was very responsive with very special reeds.The 3 mics in the treble couldn't cope with the volume of the reeds so we fitted small foam boots over the individual mics,worked a treat,

This should work well on a melodeon
Logged
Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6359
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Microvox musings
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 01:49:49 PM »

I've got a similar thing in my box internally whilst its not a microvox is a very similar system involving a Panasonic WM-61A Electret
Quote
You could potentially put a microvox system internally but to be honest I wouldn't. I'm not a fan of the capsules or the power supply

I've discussed capsules in the past with Alan Hughes (Mr Microvox who designed all this stuff, when he was still alive) and he did a fair amount of research to find capsules that would perform better that the cheap Panasonics, in particular in terms of maximum SPL, because they can easily overload with a loud melodeon. (the larger capules in the older M305/M310 series are cheaper mics which do overload more easily). He wouldn't say exactly what the better ones were, but I deduced from hints dropped in the conversation that they were probably make by AKG.

As for the power supply, I agree that the design wasn't ideal. I have made several of my own and they featured:
  • XLR output for connecting directly to a mic cable
  • Unaffected by phantom power (using a jack-to XLR cable with the Microvox box and phantom power on wasn't nice at all; a DI box would solve that problem but is messy extra hardware)
  • Push button to light a battery test LED momentarily (the LED on all the time drew far more current than the mic, shortening battery life)
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.barleycoteband.co.uk
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal