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Author Topic: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G  (Read 766 times)

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Maggie

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Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« on: March 12, 2018, 04:44:27 PM »

I am the new and proud owner of a wee Hohner Liliput inn D/G.  It is in quite good condition, but going to Stephanie Simon (French version of a fettler) for a service.  Most of the buttons are in standard D/G layout, but the lowest (as in notes, not position, therefore chin end) on the G row, numbered 1, and the lowest two on the D row, numbered 2 & 3 are a bit odd.  Hope the attached pdf file is readable.

Can anyone advise me which notes would be useful to have with these buttons - there are four accidental buttons already.

Also - can anyone sell me genuine reeds/blocks - sorry, not sure what the terminology is in English.  I am looking for 1930s style German, I guess.

All help and advice gratefully received!  Thanks

Maggie :|||:

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Saltarelle l'elfique 19+2 in G/C - and a wee Hohner Lilliput in D/G

La Creuse, France - the land of calm and of brillant traditional music 🎶

Gena Crisman

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 05:13:53 PM »

Is that diagram a hypothetical layout or the current layout? Do the buttons do something already or do they not do anything? Also, are your chord's labelled in reverse?
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Maggie

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 05:37:20 PM »

The diagram is the current layout.  All the buttons do something - button 1 is currently E push D pull, but an octave higher.  Button 2 is currenly E flat push and F pull, also an octave higher.  Button 3 is currently G push, A pull, low octave.

I have had trouble reading the bass/chord chart.  It seems to me that the buttons are ok.  I have only learned a couple of tunes on this melodeon and my fingers are finding the basses naturally.  I noted them on the diagram as written by Stephanie, the accordiste.

Hope that is clearer!

Maggie :|||:
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Saltarelle l'elfique 19+2 in G/C - and a wee Hohner Lilliput in D/G

La Creuse, France - the land of calm and of brillant traditional music 🎶

Gena Crisman

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 06:43:45 PM »

That already seems like a sensible enough layout to me! Most of them are still 'accidental' type buttons and are found on the periphery, but the main body of buttons mostly seem to fall into the regular progression that you see.

Button '3' as low octave G/A gives you a full low octave scale for G, giving you the access to the low G of a violin. For a DG instrument, this aspect of the layout would often be called Low G scale or Anahata layout. This is, I believe, becoming very popular in the UK, and also very useful for a reasonable number of tunes.

Button '1' sounds like a straight reversal of either the 4th button down on the D/outside row, or the 6th button down on the G/middle row. Either of these would be useful additions, though I suspect it is the former.

Button '2' sounds like a low octave copy of the 3rd button of the half row. This, combined with the 1st/4th button of the half row, I think gives you each accidental note in 2 octaves, which is also a very useful thing to have.

The 2nd button on your half row, C/D, likely provides a reversal of your middle octave's C button on the push and a pull D in the same region, which also seems quite reasonable and useful.

These extra notes are always a little bit 'odd', as they tend to have to be related to the person playing and what kind of music they like to play. For example, in this case, the direction of the Eb/F accidentals is 'reversed' and the G#/Bb accidental is 'not reversed' (or vice versa, depending on what you are used to). This is a personal choice and the reed plates are easily reversable by someone servicing the instrument, but what the 'correct' way around for you will be will depend on you: there've been many threads about trying to find the 'correct' choice for the direction of an accidental - often though the reasoning will or won't make sense depending on how you can combine it with other notes or basses - in your case you currently have a push E and can play push E + push G# + push B for an E Major triad, which changes the reasoning for wanting the buttons in one orientation or another for an instrument without a push E. The Eb on the push allows you to play Eb with a B major bass chord (which sounds great to me, but is a rare opportunity) but also precludes a full B major right hand side pull chord, as well as playing the F against a G major (for a G7). One reason to have this pair the way your instrument does is to allow you to form a right hand F + A + C triad, but, with the layout you have this would be possible either way. A few extra buttons can make everything very complicated!

The home page includes the layouts of several well known players who use 2 and a half row instruments here - you can see that quite a few of them. I also found some sage + 10 year old advice in this thread here, although some of the note language is a bit impenetrable.

Most likely, you could leave the layout as it is and explore what can be played with it and have a good time, without having to make any changes at all. You can ignore almost all of the extra buttons entirely for a large amount of tunes. Is there any particular reason you feel the existing layout might be odd or different from what you might be used to?

(NB: For my basses comment, you would expect the G & B on the push, and the A and E minor on the pull - your diagram has these the other way.)
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Maggie

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 07:44:43 PM »

Many thanks for your reply, Gena. 

It was the first button on each row that really confused me, being in a higher octave.  I have a lot to learn about playing in D/G and your thorough explanation is really helpful.  I have already looked at the different layouts listed and your message will help me to understand why they are different.

As a ‘senior’ learner with no music theory knowledge, it is an interesting experience to learn to play the melodeon.  I am getting on fine with French music on my G/C box and look forward to becoming more adept with the D/G - only three tunes learned so far!

Thanks again

Maggie  :|||:
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Saltarelle l'elfique 19+2 in G/C - and a wee Hohner Lilliput in D/G

La Creuse, France - the land of calm and of brillant traditional music 🎶

folkloristmark

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 08:54:11 PM »

hi
I have only a couple of Dg liliputs and have sold two in my Lifetime.The incidental advice given already is good and if you are new to the extra row then it will influence you as you learn . Dg has to be a conversion , if you dont mind me asking what is its provedence?.
Most of them must originate from Master Mike Rowbotham who would be a good listener and advisor for the extra buttons . I do have one from Theo. Was this box from Frattons he has one.

I am in France but up in Normandy and have a small collection that can be culled but I think it will be hard to obtain blocks with out the whole instrument,now  the on I am missing is a CG Lilliput. Are you sticking with the hohner trem I think thats  good but again Mikes site has a few examples of drier tuning.The one thing I could say with all hohner half rows is the can testing on the fussy ear, I think because how the tunnig bias relates to the players home keys and the physical location in the box. Also leather or plastic valves do effect sound , both in positive ways depending on preference.

My humble  advice you get to know the box before making choices based on theory not practice or go MAD.

enjoy
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Mark Taylor
Folkloristmark

Maggie

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 07:30:52 AM »

Thanks for your reply, Mark.  Yes I have had excellent advice from Gena and from another member through a PM.  I am beginning to understand the reasons for the different tunings at the low end of a D/G box.

It has a wonderful sound - the ‘Hohner trem?’ - and great volume, but I posted the question because it is booked for a full revision in mid-April: it has had a few somewhat agricultural repairs in the last 80+ years and also needs a bit of restoration.  If there are changes to be made, it makes sense to me to have it all done at the same time.  There are already a couple of Italian reed plates that I would prefer to change back to more original ones.

I am already enjoying playing it - don’t love it as much as my gorgeous Saltarelle but it is fun to play. 

Maggie  :|||:

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Saltarelle l'elfique 19+2 in G/C - and a wee Hohner Lilliput in D/G

La Creuse, France - the land of calm and of brillant traditional music 🎶

folkloristmark

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 08:40:09 AM »

That all makes sense. If you ever get up to normandy I have a few you could try to get the feel.I dont think well tuned the italian reeds would matter as you wont get "original" reeds except from a doner box.They are very uniformly made so good Gd blocks will swap into another box and I have never really had one beyond repair. The main difference is how loose they are with wear but I think that looseness is a plus for ease of play once airtight.Best regards
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Mark Taylor
Folkloristmark

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 11:45:23 AM »

"I have a few you could try"

Ha, like almost a factory full you mean! I remember you telling me how many you had, Mark. A few, indeed!
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 12:04:38 PM »

I too have a 2+4 D/G . I put your layout onto my template. If I have it right it looks more logical than you originally seemed to think and looks like a good selection of choices. Certainly good enough not to need messing with until you get to know it well enough to work out anything that doesn't work for you.

I am uncertain from your posts which octaves button 1 on the G row and button 1 on the D row are in (you label these buttons 1 and 2). In my diagram, each note has a number under it. This number denotes the octave the note is in, according to the "scientific" designation (a system in common use and is a very good way of indicating the pitch of a note. e.g, C4 is middle C). Have I got these notes right?
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Maggie

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Re: Advice please - Hohner Liliput D/G
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 04:25:51 PM »

I too have a 2+4 D/G . I put your layout onto my template. If I have it right it looks more logical than you originally seemed to think and looks like a good selection of choices. Certainly good enough not to need messing with until you get to know it well enough to work out anything that doesn't work for you.

I am uncertain from your posts which octaves button 1 on the G row and button 1 on the D row are in (you label these buttons 1 and 2). In my diagram, each note has a number under it. This number denotes the octave the note is in, according to the "scientific" designation (a system in common use and is a very good way of indicating the pitch of a note. e.g, C4 is middle C). Have I got these notes right?

Hi Greg

Thank you so much for this - it is perfect!  Much of the advice I have received is that the layout is fine and that I should stay with it for the time being.  I am grateful to be able to benefit from the expertise within this forum - it makes a huge difference for us less knowledgeable folks.

Maggie  :|||:
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Saltarelle l'elfique 19+2 in G/C - and a wee Hohner Lilliput in D/G

La Creuse, France - the land of calm and of brillant traditional music 🎶
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