Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: 12 bass D/G.  (Read 587 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Geoff P.

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
12 bass D/G.
« on: April 23, 2018, 12:59:18 PM »

I have learned a lot from melnet, but this is my first specific request, so I hope someone will be able to help.

I have just returned from a very enjoyable, useful and inspirational weekend at Melodeons in Wensleydale, and am now the proud owner of a 12bass D/G box, so I need some tunes to practice the newly acquired bass notes and chords.
I don't know if it is the standard for these boxes, so for information the extra left-hand is F sharp and A push and B and E on the pull.

What I am after from experienced melnetters is to identify some tunes which use, or could use these chords. Ideally simple well known tunes so that I don't need to expend too much of my limited brain-power on the right hand, and ideally for which dots and you-tube are available, in case I don't know the tune.

As always after a workshop weekend I hope I can get going quickly, rather than wait for suitable tunes to just turn up, so many thanks if you can help.

Geoff.
Logged

Scobarandbar

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 01:39:28 PM »

I have learned a lot from melnet, but this is my first specific request, so I hope someone will be able to help.

I have just returned from a very enjoyable, useful and inspirational weekend at Melodeons in Wensleydale, and am now the proud owner of a 12bass D/G box, so I need some tunes to practice the newly acquired bass notes and chords.
I don't know if it is the standard for these boxes, so for information the extra left-hand is F sharp and A push and B and E on the pull.

What I am after from experienced melnetters is to identify some tunes which use, or could use these chords. Ideally simple well known tunes so that I don't need to expend too much of my limited brain-power on the right hand, and ideally for which dots and you-tube are available, in case I don't know the tune.



As always after a workshop weekend I hope I can get going quickly, rather than wait for suitable tunes to just turn up, so many thanks if you can help.

Geoff.

Hi Geoff


I don't know how far you are in your learning but I would have a go at some tunes you are playing already first and try using the extra basses for 'passing' notes.  So if you were going from an Em to a G chord you could pop in the F# bass note as a 'passing' note between them to get a run.

Instead of the accompaniment being an Um pah um pah on the basses you could replace the pah with a passing, bass note to join the two bass notes together. This technique could also be used with the other extra bass buttons  as well in a similar way and gives you more scope than a regular 8 bass instrument for fitting in with your right hand melody direction as you will have now have more bass notes available in both directions. 

So anything that joins up two notes that have a one note gap between them can sound very effective i.e G[A]B    AC etc.  Remember you are just using the bass buttons and not the chords on the left hand to do this

Also, you also now have greater options for substituting chords......If you don't know what I mean by this it essentially means using a different chord to the one you are normally using. So a G major bass note and chord note can often substituted with an E minor chord and bass to provide chordal variety and a D major chord can be substituted with a B minor bass note and chord.  The reason being that these work is that there are two common notes in both chords and hence they can often work as substitutes

I don't know if you know how to play the "cheat" versions of A minor or B minor on an 8 bass instrument. They are actually A minor 7th and B minor 7th but often can work very effectively and provide more colour to the bass sounds.

Don't over-egg these techniques and let you ear be the guide as to whether they sound good

Have a look at Ollie King video on youtube to 'make basses more interesting' for some great tips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBonsmK2sQw

After reading through my answer I realise I haven't answered your question but when I listened to the concert on Saturday night in Hawes I could hear the soloists using passing notes and chord substitutions all of the time.

Hope I have helped you a bit and I am sure the 'tune masters' on here will come up with tunes for you to try on your new acquisition.
Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10457
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 02:34:51 PM »

In G tunes I use use a descending scale on the basses G F# E D C B A.  Sometimes the whole scale works, sometimes just the first 3 or 4 notes.

F# can be used in D tunes in the same way that you would use B in G tunes.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Gena Crisman

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 02:35:38 PM »

Disclaimer: I am not a chord wizard.

Those appear to be the standard chords from an ADG box, but based on your description... I guess without an A row melody side to go with it? I don't think those are particularly standard chord choices for a 12 bass DG, but, well, there aren't exactly a lot of standards for 12 bass + 2 row boxes.

If so, you have access to a push A major chord, and a push f# major, so, (as with Bm7), you can have a push f# minor 7 combining F# bass + A major chord. You also have access to a true B minor, in addition to your B major, but, on the pull. The other 'cheat' (how we form A minor on an 8 bass with A + C chord) would be thinking to form Em7, but the chord you find there is actually already E minor, instead of a push/pull G you might find on an AD box. The F# major chord really makes sense for playing in B harmonic Minor, which would replace all A notes with Bb notes, or any other place one might use the B major chord on an 8 bass when playing an Em tune (often considered to be not that often).

However, uh, if you don't have an A row, I'm not sure exactly how useful these new basses will be: They make a lot of sense for playing in A major on an A row, or letting you play more fluently in B minor, but, also with the expectation of using an A row (think how one often plays E minor on the D row).

I do still think that your most improved fluencies will be tunes in B minor, as:
  • You have access to a true B minor (so you can end on a true chord rather than a 7) but there may still be some stumbling around the bass section when you are trying to match a push D note.
  • You have a B bass in both directions, letting you avoid some types of cross rowing when playing B minor tunes.
  • You also now have access to an F# bass, which will let you add more character both to tunes in B minor and D as well.
  • You have an A chord reversal, so you can choose if you wish to play a pull A melody + A chords (from your G row) or push A + A chords (from your D row)
I would pick out a simple tune you know well in A minor or E minor, and try playing it in B minor, maybe Cuckoo's nest? I'm afraid I can't think of much use for the pull E major basses: Makes the best sense with a G# accidental, which may well not match the direction on your instrument. If you think about any tunes in G that use an A chord at some point, you could transpose them to D and use your E major in these places. Unfortunately, almost all the ones I know would also want to cross to an A row (think going to the D row for the low E) when doing this, so you'll probably have to try this playing in your upper octave in D. Off the top of my head, I use an A chord when playing in G for Rattling Bog, Three around Three, and Redwing, so, you may know a few times where you would do this - you can explore both playing these tunes in D, and also if having the A push chord helps you play them.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 02:38:46 PM by Gena Crisman »
Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10457
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 02:35:49 PM »

Did you really mean you have a second E pull on your extra basses? 
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Geoff P.

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 03:04:16 PM »

Theo,
Yup, its an Enote/ Emajor chord.
Geoff.

Thanks all for the ideas so far.
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1127
  • DG Pokerwork, DG Saltarelle Piroulet, CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 03:49:33 PM »

Theo,
Yup, its an Enote/ Emajor chord.

It sounds like the box should lend itself to playing tunes in A major. Plenty of those/
Does it have G# (preferably plural) on the pull. They would be pretty useful in that context.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Geoff P.

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 07:28:44 PM »

Yes, I have a G# (pull).
Geoff
Logged

ButtonBox21

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 106
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 12:38:31 PM »

Geoff,
Here is the link to a video on YouTube of someone playing a box like the one you just purchased.( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIpZYznP1CY ). I seem to remember having sheet music to The May Reel and Bacca Pipes jig. It might be available on Henrick Norbek's site. Good luck. :||:
Logged
Keep on Squeezin'

Mcgrooger

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 475
  • Northern Roots
Re: 12 bass D/G.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 04:49:26 PM »

Geoff,
Here is the link to a video on YouTube of someone playing a box like the one you just purchased.( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIpZYznP1CY ). I seem to remember having sheet music to The May Reel and Bacca Pipes jig. It might be available on Henrick Norbek's site. Good luck. :||:
This has to be one of the best vids to play along with! (Also probably my favourite melodeon vid of any on YT!) :||: (:) :Ph
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.