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Author Topic: Why do they do that?  (Read 2207 times)

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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2018, 09:47:24 PM »

I was sort of waiting for an offer like that. No I love the box, it's just that it pains me to see such carelessness, and all so unnecessary too.

Sir John
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: Liliput D/G : Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C: Hohner B/E. Several in C/F being restored.

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2018, 09:51:05 PM »

Rory Galagher that brings back incredible memories of live concerts!

I think we are seeing fundamental differences in human nature here.
I love and cherish my boxes but a gigging musician might see his instrument as merely a tool,
My dad always looked after his brushes and tools but other tradesmen friends wouldn't
I wash and polish my car regularly, my colleague at work never washes his.....
We're all different in our values and what we deem important or irrelevant.
.....cos we're all different human beings.
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2018, 09:55:27 PM »

Me too SJ. It would hurt me to see an otherwise pristine box, especially a red Liliput, with such a mark.

If it's on a beaten up doggy old workhorse box then it becomes a battle scar, to be worn with pride  ;D. My Dino was bought as a Morris box and isn't expected to remain pristine. But there's nothing wrong with wanting to keep a nice box looking nice.
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playandteach

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2018, 09:57:19 PM »

I treat any borrowed instrument with great and tender care, and I've also been pretty careful with my own boxes, but I have experimented with accidental key extenders on the Sander - which has left pilot holes etc.
When it came to my clarinets they were maintained well, but had incredibly high mileage in terms of hours of playing. I still have them and would prefer them in their very current tired state - they'd need a proper overhaul - to most new ones because the bits that matter, matter.
If the buckle marks meant that the box got played a lot, I'd take that over one that nobody enjoyed playing.
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gettabettabox

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2018, 10:47:36 PM »

I'm ok with so called "honesty" wear marks, arising from hours of finger work and such, but not so comfortable with marks indicating neglect.

Also don't like to see reeds that have been dropped in tuning by a lot of scratching. Ugly and it's still there when you close the box up.

"Lot" being subjective.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2018, 08:52:18 AM »

I'm ok with so called "honesty" wear marks, arising from hours of finger work and such, but not so comfortable with marks indicating neglect.

'Honesty wear marks' is a good way of putting it. Also agree with you about the neglect part. 

Quote
Also don't like to see reeds that have been dropped in tuning by a lot of scratching. Ugly and it's still there when you close the box up.
Most reeds can withstand a surprising amount of retuning by careful filing or scratching/scraping without any noticeable degradation of sound or performance. It is usually necessary to do some tuning work, even on new reeds, as they are generally supplied from the makers around 5 - 10 cents sharp; the fine tuning being needed once they are installed into the instrument. Over time, as the instrument is played, the tuning will drift so it will become necessary to retune again periodically. So filing and scratch marks are inevitable and normal.

The problems occur when clumsy or heavy-handed treatment damages the delicate tip of the reed tongue, or leaves really deep gouges or transverse ridges in the mid-section. The latter particularly can act as stress concentration zones, often leading to premature cracking of the reed tongue. Over-zealous use of a dremel tool for tuning can easily ruin a reed. It's best to always use sharp hand tools - files and scratchers - and avoid dremels entirely.

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baz parkes

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2018, 09:35:22 AM »

cigarette burns and coffee mug rings all over?

If there's no fag burn how do you know where Middle C is?  >:E :|glug
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2018, 09:35:56 AM »

cigarette burns and coffee mug rings all over?
If there's no fag burn how do you know where Middle C is?  >:E :|glug

Easy - it's just to the left of the keyhole!  ;D
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Steve
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gettabettabox

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2018, 11:07:08 AM »

I'm ok with so called "honesty" wear marks, arising from hours of finger work and such, but not so comfortable with marks indicating neglect.

'Honesty wear marks' is a good way of putting it. Also agree with you about the neglect part. 

Quote
Also don't like to see reeds that have been dropped in tuning by a lot of scratching. Ugly and it's still there when you close the box up.
Most reeds can withstand a surprising amount of retuning by careful filing or scratching/scraping without any noticeable degradation of sound or performance. It is usually necessary to do some tuning work, even on new reeds, as they are generally supplied from the makers around 5 - 10 cents sharp; the fine tuning being needed once they are installed into the instrument. Over time, as the instrument is played, the tuning will drift so it will become necessary to retune again periodically. So filing and scratch marks are inevitable and normal.

The problems occur when clumsy or heavy-handed treatment damages the delicate tip of the reed tongue, or leaves really deep gouges or transverse ridges in the mid-section. The latter particularly can act as stress concentration zones, often leading to premature cracking of the reed tongue. Over-zealous use of a dremel tool for tuning can easily ruin a reed. It's best to always use sharp hand tools - files and scratchers - and avoid dremels entirely.



Yes, I know about that Steve. It's still ugly though when a bit of time spent on careful and tidy filing, a lot of scratching can be avoided. Time is the box tuner's enemy of course!
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invadm

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2018, 03:14:20 PM »

This thread reminded me of recently covered  're building a corona' and new blue celluloid cover..I am still wondering if any shop/makers offers a NEW wrapping in EU zone..who has the Italian connection here? one of the mel-net members surely knows some in accordion/ melodeon makers world..think of those worn out poor poker works and single row Vienna models in NEW shiny RED or blue  >:E  ,get in touch with the makers/ builders and ask the question and share the info  (:)         
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2018, 03:18:46 PM »

Yes, I know about that Steve. It's still ugly though when a bit of time spent on careful and tidy filing, a lot of scratching can be avoided. Time is the box tuner's enemy of course!

Ugly scratches vs file marks?
An interesting question. I prefer to think of the integrity of the reed. Some tuners are of the opinion that longitudinal scratches along the middle section of the reed tongue, keeping away from the edges, cause less harm than fine filing across the full width of the reed tongue.

I prefer to use a sharp scratcher rather than a file to flatten a reed. In any case, it's not really feasible to use a file to flatten the inside pull reeds; unless you remove the reed plate from the block (which would then compound the problem of accurate tuning) you have to use a scratcher through the reed plate slot.

Mind you, I would never scratch a concertina reed :o. Fine filing only, and with the utmost care.
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Steve
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gettabettabox

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2018, 05:39:42 PM »

Thanks Steve.
Of course, if you're scratching through the slots, particularly the smaller reeds, then you have to be very good...if you don't want to disturb the valves or reed setting?
I have nothing against scratching, ...myself or reeds..  (:)  but for fine tuning only.
For example how far would you be comfortable with when dropping the tuning of a reedset with a scratcher?
Cheers.
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Andy in Vermont

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2018, 07:19:48 PM »

Years ago, a friend gave me a nice gift: several leather sleeves designed to fit over the metal fittings of Castagnari shoulder straps. I’ve used them ever since. If anyone is interested, I can ask him whether he’s interested in making more for sale.

Grape Ape

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2018, 09:20:18 PM »

I lengthened the non original straps on my Gaillard about a year ago and it was too late before I noticed that the change meant the metal brackets were as a result rubbing aganst the bellows.  Definitely doesn’t look so pristine now, but fortunately is still air tight.  Now I know to check the lengths carefully on the bottom brackets....
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melodeon

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2018, 02:15:38 AM »

The Button Box  sells Velcro wrap arounds that work well.

I do not care for buckle rash on any instrument to include melodeons. Too easy to prevent and shows respect for the instrument and possibly a subsequent owner and to the manufacturer.

I have turned down other wise fine accordeons for that reason. There is no excuse in my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 02:35:59 PM by melodeon »
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Grape Ape

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2018, 12:35:02 PM »

I just gave one....
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2018, 12:40:44 PM »

Pete (Acorn Instruments) of this parish supplies leather buckle protectors. I use them on my instruments.
http://www.acorninstruments.co.uk/inst.cfm?instID=29
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Steve
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penn

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2018, 12:47:16 PM »

Yes i had a similar problem to Grape Ape's on the first day home with my Baffetti super. The fancy supplied straps have very sharp buckles, and scratched the back and the corner of the bellows. I may even have done it in the shop when I test drove it. It wears a pair of my wife's socks now, but.. it's too late.
Why aren't the straps fitted with socks already? This is not an uncommon problem? How do you test it without scratching it?
To be honest, with every instrument I've owned (and cars) I have a slight feeling of relief over the first ding as it calms my nerves about handling it. I'm not rough or disrespectful, and do take care, but I couldn't do with wearing gloves to handle it, or shouting at anyone who got within a foot of it.
Steve
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Stiamh

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2018, 12:53:37 PM »

I understand from my violin maker friends that the practice of luthiers "antiquing" their new instruments (making them look old and well-played-in with fake dents, scratches, and stains) is enjoying something of a revival. One maker complained that when he goes to an exhibition of new instruments these days, the public seem to bypass the shiny new ones and go straight for the beaten-up-looking ones.

Can't understand it myself. I mean I am very attached to my c. 1875 fiddle which has suffered numerous cracks and repairs and has an indelible blackish stain from where previous players' hands pressed against the top bout when playing in higher positions. It bears all these marks with grace, as badges of honour. They were acquired honestly!

From reactions to this post I don't suppose we'll be seeing antiquing of new button boxes any time soon.

Steve C.

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Re: Why do they do that?
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2018, 01:04:56 PM »

Penn, my brother, when buying a new car, would take a hammer and put a ding in it, usually on the right rear quarter panel, soon as he got it home.  Crazy.   But does remove the anxiety of "the first ding". (note: he did not buy expensive cars).  But still...
To the OP, I'm with Melodeon, buy or make buckle covers!
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