Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout  (Read 1050 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Les

  • New Starter
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« on: April 25, 2018, 06:19:56 PM »

I know that Cyrille Brotto uses a Castagnari Mory for his tunes and it appears he has both an older and a newer model.  Does anyone have a scheme for his keyboard layout?  Is he using the standard layout for the 2.5 row G/C illustrated in the Milleret/Pignol instruction books (Vol. 3)?  I am thinking of ordering a Mory and would like to know how he has his configured.  Any advice?
Logged

melodeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1629
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 02:17:19 AM »

I am also interested..
perhaps a an e mail might get his attention.
Logged

-Y-

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
  • Handry 18 (G/C), Club IIb (A/D), Double Ray (C#/D)
    • dia.to
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 10:23:40 AM »

He used to have a superb website dedicated to accordions back in the 2000's (diatonik.net), but even with the Web Archive site the page describing layouts is unreachable.

Where are you ordering your Mory? If it's directly from Castagnari, they might know which configuration he has.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 10:27:23 AM by -Y- »
Logged
Y.

Planchée, folk music from Eastern BrittanyIsidore et les sans-soucis, folk music from Québec

(please excuse any misspelling or odd wording, english is not my mother tongue)

Roger Howard

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 461
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 10:44:05 AM »

Is he using the standard layout for the 2.5 row G/C illustrated in the Milleret/Pignol instruction books (Vol. 3)?

I'm not sure that there is a truly standard layout for for a 2.5 row GC. What seems to be the  standard Mory layout (https://www.accordeon-en-bretagne.bzh/theorie/les-claviers-daccordeons-diatoniques-rangs-touches-basses/) and Bernard's Loffet 2.5 layout (http://diato.org/pdf/2+5r12b.pdf) differ from the Milleret/Pignol layout, which I always thought was a suggestion rather than anything else. (A bit like their three row layout suggestion, which is more  - well, almost polemical.) I used to have a Loffet 2.6 and found it didn't take too long to find the accidentals and reversal on the half row. It doesn't seem critical to me. Does the music you want to play have specific requirements?

Roger

Logged
Serafini 3 row Pignol-Milleret, Preciosa Bb/Eb, G/C Gaillard 2 row, 3 voice, D/G Lilly in Maple.

Les

  • New Starter
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 05:55:46 PM »

Roger - I have no specific needs and certainly would welcome all suggestions. The links you provide are useful but only makes me more confused!  Wish there was a standard!  I simply have gotten interested in having the ability to incorporate some more jazz structure and walking bass lines. For example, in one instructional video by Milleret he walks a base line through G-G#-A all pulling.  But some of the layouts per your links have the bass G# on the pull others on the push.  Coordinating this with the right hand desires can, I imaging, be difficult.  I guess the standard is to find work arounds for whatever you individually want given the box that you have.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 07:31:37 PM by Les »
Logged

Roger Howard

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 461
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 09:24:30 PM »

Possibly not  helpful, considering that your starting point seems to be a Mory, but have you thought about  three row with a Milleret-Pignol layout? Marc Serafini made mine, and although he is not producing currently, but there are plenty of other good makers, like Vanglabeke, Guais, Van de Aa, Rutkowski etc.. My guess is that the cost/ wait time isn't that different from a Mory.(Gaillard is a long wait, but worth it! :D)

Best wishes

Roger
Logged
Serafini 3 row Pignol-Milleret, Preciosa Bb/Eb, G/C Gaillard 2 row, 3 voice, D/G Lilly in Maple.

benammiswift

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
  • Squeezing for Derbyshire
    • benammiswift.co.uk
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 10:14:46 PM »

Just a note on the wait times, you'll get a Mory far quicker than any of those makes either by going direct or buying them from someone like Acorn.

Rutowski, VDA etc are all small companies and so have quite long wait times

Benammi
Logged
Castagnari Handry 18

Les

  • New Starter
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 10:34:32 PM »

Roger - Thanks for the suggestions.  I am not wedded to a Mory but think of it as a sort of compromise.  I am currently playing a Castagnari 1914 G/C that I like very much.  It has 3 treble voices and sometimes - not very often I might add - I like to use all three reeds.  I looked into the Gaillard 3 rows and they all seem to be 2 voice instruments.  I looked at the Handry 12 and 18 but they seem rather heavy.  So the Mory seemed a compromise.  Maybe I should be happy with just 2 voices?  Do you have an opinion on the Castagnari Evo or the Rik - both 2 voice boxes?  They seem comparable to the Gaillard as a 2 voice/3 row box. 

A friend of mine has 11 accordions!!  I am beginning to see why!

Best,

Les
Logged

benammiswift

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
  • Squeezing for Derbyshire
    • benammiswift.co.uk
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 10:53:25 PM »

Nahh you don't need 11 haha. I use just the one and recently ordered another as a backup/ lighter option.

I'll PM you, maybe be a better platform for me to offer advice.

Benammi

Logged
Castagnari Handry 18

Fred

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 01:48:43 PM »

Maybe I should be happy with just 2 voices?

Not going to add much to the discussion, since I have no idea how a Mory plays (nor any other Castagnari for that matter). But I want to say that if you want to play a bit jazzy, it will serve you very well to not be restricted to a 3 voices which might either be too heavy in sound or too restricted in tone variance. If I were you, I'd look for either removable thirds or simply go with a (probably a bit lighter) 2 voice instrument altogether. Keep on searching and take your time to try out a lot of instruments. One day you'll find exactly the right one.  :||:
Logged

-Y-

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
  • Handry 18 (G/C), Club IIb (A/D), Double Ray (C#/D)
    • dia.to
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 06:32:35 PM »

Actually, regarding the 2.5/3 rows question, I always feel that it's more a question of size rather than raw weight: the bigger the area, the more pressure you have to apply, which also adds "inertia" to the handling. In this respect, the Mory and Handry (12 and 18) share the same box size and the Handry 12 and 18 are 100 grams and 500 grams heavier than a Mory. So, all in all, it's rather a budget problem, IMHO.
For a jazzy playing style on a 2.5 rows, I would rather focus on the harmonic possibilities, so a big focus on the left-hand side and the chords and cadences you can do on the right-hand side. In this respect, Milleret-Pignol on 3 rows is hard to beat, so on a 2 rows+5 I would favour the 4 missing notes on two octaves, and in the middle the D/E reversal – for a D/G box – (which, to sum up, is more or less Bernard Loffet's layout I think).
Logged
Y.

Planchée, folk music from Eastern BrittanyIsidore et les sans-soucis, folk music from Québec

(please excuse any misspelling or odd wording, english is not my mother tongue)

Roger Howard

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 461
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 08:55:00 PM »

Do you have an opinion on the Castagnari Evo or the Rik - both 2 voice boxes?   

Sorry, I've no experience of them.

They seem comparable to the Gaillard as a 2 voice/3 row box.

I'm a big fan of Gaillard's instruments - but the wait is formidable.

For a jazzy playing style on a 2.5 rows, I would rather focus on the harmonic possibilities, so a big focus on the left-hand side and the chords and cadences you can do on the right-hand side. In this respect, Milleret-Pignol on 3 rows is hard to beat, so on a 2 rows+5 I would favour the 4 missing notes on two octaves, and in the middle the D/E reversal – for a D/G box – (which, to sum up, is more or less Bernard Loffet's layout I think).

I agree. The Milleret-Pignol layout makes lots of sense for something "jazzy". As for two or three voices, I have a two voice three row Serafini, and a three voice two row Gaillard. I got the Gaillard partly because I found the three voice 2.6 row  Loffet I had before it appreciably less agile (a lovely, rich sound and a very responsive box, but less agile), so I played it quite a bit less than the Serafini.  Personally, I think that two voices work fine on a three row with the extra basses. If you like the sound of the box, that's worth more than having the flexibility of three voices, I think. I suppose the bottom line is (inevitably) the commonplace, try different instruments, to hear and feel what you like.

Just a note on the wait times, you'll get a Mory far quicker than any of those makes either by going direct or buying them from someone like Acorn.

Rutowski, VDA etc are all small companies and so have quite long wait times

Benammi

Absolutely. My error. Costs are probably comparable, but a Castagnari with a standard layout will be in your hands much more quickly. Van de Aa has a 20 months delay, I think, Rutkowski probably 24 months, for example.

Good luck with your quest. Try before you buy!  ;)

Roger
Logged
Serafini 3 row Pignol-Milleret, Preciosa Bb/Eb, G/C Gaillard 2 row, 3 voice, D/G Lilly in Maple.

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7946
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 09:44:55 AM »

Gaillard works to a cycle based on the Ch. d'Ars festival and had just moved from 2 to 3 years wait when I last saw him, 2012.

https://youtu.be/JWNY9Hpysbc some phone video of the boys, playing "Pieds de la dame aux clebs" … but most of the jazz is from Stéf. I'm guessing Nanterre last year, but they get around. Last seen on a plane to Switzerland?

To topic : the Pignol/Milleret layout is specifically designed for 3 full rows, and that an 11/12/11 too! It's C/G with a G# on the C row. The accs then fill inner 11 row, and also wrap around onto the inner low range buttons. Not sure how that might work, even conceptually on a 2+5 (Mori) and P/M didn't use it when they were playing 2+7s in the early 1990s.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:50:09 AM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

-Y-

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
  • Handry 18 (G/C), Club IIb (A/D), Double Ray (C#/D)
    • dia.to
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 10:55:14 AM »

Not sure how that might work, even conceptually on a 2+5 (Mori)

It wouldn't really be optimal, I fear. First, the G# on the C row would probably be the main issue. And also, the fact that the accidentals and the 3rd row would cover only one octave. It also depends on whether you want the Dutch reversal.
Logged
Y.

Planchée, folk music from Eastern BrittanyIsidore et les sans-soucis, folk music from Québec

(please excuse any misspelling or odd wording, english is not my mother tongue)

Kay

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
    • A Accordion
Re: Cyrille Brotto Keyboard layout
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2018, 07:35:41 AM »

It might be interesting for the OP to know that Cyrille is selling his Mory right know via the L'Accordéonerie shop of Antoine Errotaberea. Leave him a message or give him a call, he can help you out with layout questions.

www.laccordeonerie.fr.ht
+33687554330
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.