Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Your own amp for border morris dance outs  (Read 2526 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« on: May 01, 2018, 09:44:14 PM »

I'm looking for recommendations for a portable battery melodeon amp for border morris dance outs, especially festivals.
 
We have been using a single 100W battery powered PA through a battery powered mixer. This works OK and sounds great, but it's a pain to cart around, even with the aid of a converted golf trolley. We are thinking of switching to individual units, which seems to be how many sides operate.

Any suggestions welcomed. Needs to be loud to make a serious impact in noisy environments, light enough to cart around between locations and cheap enough to afford.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

oggiesnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 977
  • Dino BPII, Alfred Arnold Bandoneon, Loffet G/C
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 10:11:37 PM »

Roland Street Cube.

The issue becomes how you mike up your box to utilise the inputs.  I use a small Berhinger mixer and feed into the mic/line channel.  Runs off batteries, somewhere between £250 and £270.

The other alternative is to get more musicians  (:)

Steve
Logged

pikey

  • Addicted to squeezeboxes since 1975
  • Thread mod
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3245
  • If it moves, I'll squeeze it....
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 10:26:52 PM »

Or get a Dino Bafetti Binci !!  >:E
Logged
Still squeezing after all these years.
Mostly on hohners , with a couple of Dinos and a smattering of anglos - and now a Jeffries duet

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 10:50:21 PM »

Roland Street Cube.

The issue becomes how you mike up your box to utilise the inputs.  I use a small Berhinger mixer and feed into the mic/line channel.  Runs off batteries, somewhere between £250 and £270.

The other alternative is to get more musicians  (:)

Steve

Sounds promising. I have a Behringer 1002b mixer already.

Even with the biggest line up we can muster (probably 10 or 11 including percussion) the extra impact when amped is remarkable. Most of the time we field less, though, and we have a number of quieter instruments we don't want drowned out. The PA set up lets us balance the live sound.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 10:52:48 PM »

Thank you for that Pikey. Maybe next time I win the lottery.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1490
  • Pokerwork DG lo, Tommy DG lo+acc, Streb #101
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 12:57:46 PM »

I tried the Roland KC-220 with my Streb.  It was super.  They let me try it outside in parking lot.  Maybe they were happy I was trying it outside in the parking lot.  Expensive, tho.  Got to think it over....
Logged
Located in Central NC, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

Howard Jones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 719
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2018, 02:06:49 PM »

How does this fit in with the need for an entertainment licence?  If I understand correctly, the exemption for small events (below 500) applies only to premises with an alcohol licence, or where the music is unamplified.

I must admit I'm struggling with the idea that a Border morris band might need amplification. Most of those I've come across can be heard in the next county.
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 08:53:58 AM »

How does this fit in with the need for an entertainment licence?  If I understand correctly, the exemption for small events (below 500) applies only to premises with an alcohol licence, or where the music is unamplified.

I must admit I'm struggling with the idea that a Border morris band might need amplification. Most of those I've come across can be heard in the next county.

I hadn't thought of that. Immediate thoughts are:

We don't mic up at every venue.
A lot of out dance outs are linked to pubs! I suppose I work on the assumption that their arrangements cover us.
A bit of extra volume at bigger events is what we are really after. We do a number of festivals, village events and country shows. These have amplified music in abundance. I leave worrying about licences to the organisers of these events.

Of the events we organise ourselves, our Tavistock Day Of Dance (AKA Pudsey Morris Day) is the only one that we carry the can for 100% and we have a licence from the local authority for this. I haven't looked at the details of the licence but I am fairly sure it covers us.

Knowledgeable advice always welcome, Theo permitting (:)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 08:55:41 AM by Tone Dumb Greg »
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 09:02:12 AM »

So far as my original post goes, thanks for the advice. I am going to give the Roland Microcube 10W GX a go. Met a few last night. They seem to have plenty of poke and are relatively cheap.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

t-tone

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • S. Devon, Sandpiper D/G
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 09:07:19 AM »

Easy to get it wrong with amplification, last weekend I saw a side with melodeon, fiddle and amplified mandolin. The mandolin wasn't especially loud, but it had the strange effect of making the other instruments inaudible, to my hearing at least.
Logged
Practise, even when success looks hopeless. The left hand, inept in other respects for lack of practice, can grasp the reins more firmly than the right, because here it has had practice (M. Aurelius)

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7467
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 09:24:13 AM »

A lot of out dance outs are linked to pubs! I suppose I work on the assumption that their arrangements cover us.
Never assume
Quote
A bit of extra volume at bigger events is what we are really after. We do a number of festivals, village events and country shows. These have amplified music in abundance. I leave worrying about licences to the organisers of these events.
Never assume
Quote
Of the events we organise ourselves, our Tavistock Day Of Dance (AKA Pudsey Morris Day) is the only one that we carry the can for 100% and we have a licence from the local authority for this. I haven't looked at the details of the licence but I am fairly sure it covers us.
Never assume

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 09:36:12 AM »

Easy to get it wrong with amplification, last weekend I saw a side with melodeon, fiddle and amplified mandolin. The mandolin wasn't especially loud, but it had the strange effect of making the other instruments inaudible, to my hearing at least.

Strangely enough, that's exactly what happened to us last night on our second dance. He had it turned well down for the first number. I said turn it up a bit. After the second dance one of the dancers came up to me and said the mandolin was all she could hear. Bearing in mind that, for the dance in question, as well as the mandolin,  we fielded two melodeons  (aux naturelle), two fiddles (lightly amplified), two drums and a couple of tambourines, one Piano Accordion and a whistle, I was a bit surprised.

The other problem we had was, that we had a (generally, very good), guest drummer joining in from the guest side who got a bit carried away on a few numbers in which he was the only one drumming and ended up well ahead of tempo. The musicians closest to him started to follow him and we ended up with two halves of the band playing well out of sink. I am wondering how to address this. Another reason for looking for the portable PA for myself, I suppose.

I am looking for a way to say, "if you can't hear me, play quieter until you can, or shut up", without offending anyone. I think I'll just shout it lound enough for them to hear it clearly (:)
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 09:37:55 AM »

A lot of out dance outs are linked to pubs! I suppose I work on the assumption that their arrangements cover us.
Never assume
Quote
A bit of extra volume at bigger events is what we are really after. We do a number of festivals, village events and country shows. These have amplified music in abundance. I leave worrying about licences to the organisers of these events.
Never assume
Quote
Of the events we organise ourselves, our Tavistock Day Of Dance (AKA Pudsey Morris Day) is the only one that we carry the can for 100% and we have a licence from the local authority for this. I haven't looked at the details of the licence but I am fairly sure it covers us.
Never assume

I wonder what could possibly go wrong. In my defence, m'Lud, we've been ok so far.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4075
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 10:09:42 AM »

A few years back we were asked by the Morris Federation to organise the Joint Morris Organisation's Day of Dance in Exeter, where morris of all descriptions from any of the 3 organisations ( Fed, Ring and Open ) could come, meet and dance.
Our worry was regarding the licence restrictions over using amplified music, in fact the then Fed President made the point when we took on the venture and warned us about allowing amplified music in the street.
My friends who I dance with chatted about this last Saturday when we ( me and Greg ) were at a day of dance locally and some were using amps. My friend who helped me organise the JMO Day of Dance said the licence regulations are now relaxed.

Greg - Regardless of choice of what amp etc. it might be worth clarifying the situation regarding amplified music as I've heard it's changed but only through hearsay.
Not sure if you're Open or Fed but someone there will know.
cheers
Q

Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10555
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 10:20:22 AM »



The other problem we had was, that we had a (generally, very good), guest drummer joining in from the guest side who got a bit carried away on a few numbers in which he was the only one drumming and ended up well ahead of tempo. The musicians closest to him started to follow him and we ended up with two halves of the band playing well out of sink. I am wondering how to address this. Another reason for looking for the portable PA for myself, I suppose.


Sack the drummer!  He is not "generally very good" if he got ahead of the tempo in a gig.  Or have sufficient rehearsal with the drummer so that everyone can learn to play together.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1666
  • Never too old to learn
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 10:20:40 AM »

My response to a noisy audience, when I sing and play, is to do quieter songs. The more you up your volume, the more they up theirs.
Why do choirs and orchestras have their loudest bits at the back?

Sir John
Logged
I used to play by ear, but got into dire trouble.
Diarrhoea !



: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C: Hohner B/E: Hohner Erika C/F: Bb/Eb Liliput, awaiting restoration.

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4075
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 10:54:46 AM »

I've seen John's resolution put to amazing effect in a pub where the singer just got quieter and quieter until the rowdies realised they were just *so loud*. The embarrassment was palpable and let us get on singing in silence.
Not quite sure how it translates to dancing, but it's a great idea!
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 11:14:37 AM »


Sack the drummer!  He is not "generally very good" if he got ahead of the tempo in a gig.  Or have sufficient rehearsal with the drummer so that everyone can learn to play together.


Mmm. Can't argue with that but, by "generally very good" I mean that he is a very experienced morris drummer, who has played along with us on a number of previous occasions without problems and has always added to the music in a good way, rather than run away with it. Don't know why it was so different last night. but I think things were probably compounded a bit by having a bigger band, with some new musicians, this year  (new to morris, that is, they have a pretty good ceilidh band). Apart from the drummer we have been practicing together all through the winter and played a few gigs together, since Christmas,  and seemed to be pretty tight.

Morris is, very much, a social activity for us and we often have guest appearances from musicians we dance out with and vice versa. I wouldn't like to spoil that.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1281
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 11:24:53 AM »

My response to a noisy audience, when I sing and play, is to do quieter songs. The more you up your volume, the more they up theirs.
Why do choirs and orchestras have their loudest bits at the back?

Sir John

I've seen John's resolution put to amazing effect in a pub where the singer just got quieter and quieter until the rowdies realised they were just *so loud*. The embarrassment was palpable and let us get on singing in silence.
Not quite sure how it translates to dancing, but it's a great idea!
Q

That makes total sense in a "listening music" situation. I know exactly what would happen in a dance situation with our side, though. The dancers would start singingthe tune themselves and the band could go home (:) It's a funny thing, but it's really difficult to get most of them singing in the pub afterwards, but they're quite happy to do this.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10555
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Your own amp for border morris dance outs
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 11:38:55 AM »


Sack the drummer!  He is not "generally very good" if he got ahead of the tempo in a gig.  Or have sufficient rehearsal with the drummer so that everyone can learn to play together.


Mmm. Can't argue with that but, by "generally very good" I mean that he is a very experienced morris drummer, who has played along with us on a number of previous occasions without problems and has always added to the music in a good way, rather than run away with it. Don't know why it was so different last night. but I think things were probably compounded a bit by having a bigger band, with some new musicians, this year  (new to morris, that is, they have a pretty good ceilidh band). Apart from the drummer we have been practicing together all through the winter and played a few gigs together, since Christmas,  and seemed to be pretty tight.

Morris is, very much, a social activity for us and we often have guest appearances from musicians we dance out with and vice versa. I wouldn't like to spoil that.

We all have an off night sometimes! 
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.