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Author Topic: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper  (Read 3943 times)

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Winston Smith

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2018, 05:12:07 AM »

Unless the same set of reeds/blocks is used, any comparison is worthless, surely?
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AirTime

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2018, 05:15:47 AM »

To me, this sort of discussion always seems rather sterile without comparative sound files.

At the very least a "blind sound test" would be required. I can't argue with Jon's impressions of the 3 Lillys ... but it is a bit odd how the sound qualities seem to reflect the way one would expect the different woods to sound based on their appearance - the walnut "darker", the maple "brighter" & the cherry "warmer".
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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2018, 08:02:56 AM »

it is a bit odd how the sound qualities seem to reflect the way one would expect the different woods to sound based on their appearance - the walnut "darker", the maple "brighter" & the cherry "warmer".

My walnut Oakwood is very bright sounding on the treble side.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2018, 08:39:34 AM »

it is a bit odd how the sound qualities seem to reflect the way one would expect the different woods to sound based on their appearance - the walnut "darker", the maple "brighter" & the cherry "warmer".

My walnut Oakwood is very bright sounding on the treble side.

My walnut Oakwood is VERY bright sounding on the treble  side. In fact it's so bright I have to wear shades.
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2018, 09:22:42 AM »

My friend who asked me the original question about comparing the Sherwood Shire with the Sandpiper bought a Sandpiper about six wees ago and is delighted with her purchase. Thanks to all who shared their knowledge and experience of these two brands.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2018, 11:58:48 AM »

To reply to the 'wood' people…..
You need to iron out all variables except the wood:

The cases need to be *exactly* the same in dimensions and wood of exactly the same thickness in every way.
The cases need to be absolutely identical.
Ditto any mechanism, air hole dimensions, bellows etc. ….. identical in *every way possible*
Yes using the same reed blocks, transferring them between each melodeon would remove any variables between tuners or the same tuner having an off day.

Due to the innate variation when using machinery or hand crafting cases, achieving absolutely identical melodeons in different woods would be virtually impossible I would think.
…...but it would end these reoccurring discussions   >:E
cheers
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boxer

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2018, 12:36:22 PM »

re Sound: for as long as people use their ears to gauge the "warmth", "depth", "darkness" or "brilliance" of a box's sound, there'll be no possibility of an accurate, objective comparison of any of those criteria, for two reasons;  firstly, pairs of ears are each unique to their owner, as are the neural circuits to which said ears are connected, and second, the terms "warm", "deep", "dark" and "bright" are just words which mean different things to anyone who uses them.

The only rule is, if you like how a box sounds (and all the aesthetic and mechanical considerations are satisfactory), buy it.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2018, 03:10:08 PM »

…. at the end of the day, Boxer for me has nailed it!
Innumerable variables  (:)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Theo

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2018, 04:21:27 PM »


Every time this subject comes up I quote from the Strasser website at https://www.harmonika.com/en/interesting

"Because the body of a diatonic accordions – unlike, for example, guitars and violins – is not a resonance body, the material from which it is made does not affect the instrument’s sound.

There is a false logic here.   I adree that the body of a diatonic (or chromatic) accordion is not designed to be a resonance body, but the next statement does not follow because resonance is not the only way in which the sound can be affected.   Instrument bodies also absorb sound to a greater or lesser extent.  Timbers vary in  their tendency to absourb sound.  There is also diffusion of sound within the various voids inside the instrument which can be influenced by differences in surface textures. 
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Winston Smith

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2018, 05:33:46 PM »

I seem to recall, some time ago, that there was also some discussion about varnishing the insides of boxes to alter the sound. I bought a Russian bayan the other week, and it's varnished all over the inside. The smoother, and possibly harder, surface has got to stop some of the absorption of the sound, which would surely effect what our ears pick up?
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boxer

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2018, 07:42:08 PM »

it may, but it does't follow that lacquering the inside of one's own box will improve anything, because you don't know how the bayan sounded before it was lacquered.  Applying the lacquer my have changed it, but whether that was for better or worse is unknowable, and would be in any case a judgement subject to the same principles of subjectivity that I set out in my earlier post. 

People who tinker with instruments occasionally mistake change for improvement.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Sherwood Shire v. Sandpiper
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2018, 07:56:07 PM »

All the pictures I've seen of bayan innards show that they're varnished inside; perhaps the Ruskies know something we don't?
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