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Author Topic: Air leak from frame corners  (Read 1292 times)

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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Air leak from frame corners
« on: May 25, 2018, 06:37:16 PM »

What is the best way to go about stopping the bellows frame corners from leaking, and with what?
(From the bellows side, not the body side)

Sir John
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I used to play by ear, but got into dire trouble.
Diarrhoea !



: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C: Hohner B/E: Hohner Erika C/F: Bb/Eb Liliput, awaiting restoration.

havaLaff

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 11:42:08 PM »

I've managed to stop such leaks by brushing a small amount of PVA in between the inside of the bellows and the frame.
I also let slightly diluted PVA seep into the outside corners and wipe with a damp cloth to clean up.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 11:48:24 PM by havaLaff »
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MarioP

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 03:37:42 AM »

Have you replaced the seal gaskets yet? You may have to do inside and boarders sealing like on my club and old beat up PreCorona ...
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Hohner Corso A/D x2, G/C, Corona II A/D/G from the 60s.
Hohner Pre Corona II BsEsAs,Club IV C/F Pre-War, Liliput C/F, Mignon I (G) Piano from the 30s, Kromatica III from the 60s harmonica. Hohner Kids I. Pearl Forum series 80s, Zildjian, Sabían, Wuhan cymbals. Ludwig snare 70s.

Theo

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 09:26:24 AM »

For this application superglue works better than pva because will penetrate the full depth of the joint by capillary action. 
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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diatonix

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 10:25:33 AM »

For this application superglue works better than pva because will penetrate the full depth of the joint by capillary action.

That may be true, but I never encourage unexperienced customers to use superglue. The road to catastrophe is short...
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RogerT

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 03:49:34 PM »

My solution is a temp card spatula, PVA, and a damp cloth to clean up.

invadm

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 04:39:50 PM »

why not take off the frame clean,paint than glue it back Sir John? you'll have a shiny new bellows  ;) 
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tirpous

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 07:59:39 PM »

Is the leak between the frame and bellows or in the corner joint between the 2 wooden pieces ?
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 02:59:48 PM »

I've cured it thanks. I brushed a generous amount into each inside corner, and into the wood joints too, just for luck. Much better now.

Sir John
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I used to play by ear, but got into dire trouble.
Diarrhoea !



: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C: Hohner B/E: Hohner Erika C/F: Bb/Eb Liliput, awaiting restoration.

MarioP

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 04:15:57 PM »

Just for the giggles and if you want to go the extra mile I put another cheap fix and insulating in case your box still leaks from the gaskets or even strap holders holes etc: https://youtu.be/Bq5GwMAIQaA
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Hohner Corso A/D x2, G/C, Corona II A/D/G from the 60s.
Hohner Pre Corona II BsEsAs,Club IV C/F Pre-War, Liliput C/F, Mignon I (G) Piano from the 30s, Kromatica III from the 60s harmonica. Hohner Kids I. Pearl Forum series 80s, Zildjian, Sabían, Wuhan cymbals. Ludwig snare 70s.

diatonix

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 04:32:39 PM »

Just for the giggles and if you want to go the extra mile I put another cheap fix and insulating in case your box still leaks from the gaskets or even strap holders holes etc: https://youtu.be/Bq5GwMAIQaA

Could you please explain what this is supposed to be good for? I hope you only do this to your own instruments...
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Theo

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 05:30:47 PM »

In UK we call that sort of thing a bodge.  A lazy way of trying to cover up a problem instead of identifying the real problem and fixing it permanently.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Lester

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2018, 05:49:11 PM »

In UK we call that sort of thing a bodge.  A lazy way of trying to cover up a problem instead of identifying the real problem and fixing it permanently.

The use of 'bodge' in this manner annoys me as I live in the Chilterns where Bodging was a skilled trade of making chair legs on pole lathes in the Chiltern woodlands to supply the chair makers in High Wycombe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP5_OJxNccY

There I feel better now  (:)

Theo

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2018, 05:57:17 PM »

Sorry Lester, yes you are quite right.  I should have said botch!
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Lyra

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2018, 11:06:52 PM »

Could you please explain what this is supposed to be good for? I hope you only do this to your own instruments...

erm

Just for the giggles
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MarioP

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2018, 11:32:56 PM »

Just for the giggles and if you want to go the extra mile I put another cheap fix and insulating in case your box still leaks from the gaskets or even strap holders holes etc: https://youtu.be/Bq5GwMAIQaA

Could you please explain what this is supposed to be good for? I hope you only do this to your own instruments...

I do 🤣
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Hohner Corso A/D x2, G/C, Corona II A/D/G from the 60s.
Hohner Pre Corona II BsEsAs,Club IV C/F Pre-War, Liliput C/F, Mignon I (G) Piano from the 30s, Kromatica III from the 60s harmonica. Hohner Kids I. Pearl Forum series 80s, Zildjian, Sabían, Wuhan cymbals. Ludwig snare 70s.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2018, 11:38:27 PM »

Just for the giggles and if you want to go the extra mile I put another cheap fix and insulating in case your box still leaks from the gaskets or even strap holders holes etc: https://youtu.be/Bq5GwMAIQaA

Could you please explain what this is supposed to be good for? I hope you only do this to your own instruments...

I do 🤣

I'm writing a new tune called The Humours of MarioP

 ;D
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Lyra

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 12:34:55 AM »

I hoe you'll tape it for us when its done  >:E
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 09:00:33 PM »

Hello, I think I'm having an issue like this too, here are some photos, as I'm not sure quite how similar it is to the original problem that was posted about:




I've been noticing that the instrument hasn't felt *quite* as air tight as it has been previously, but had put it down to my monkeying with the keyboard to loosen some very tight key armatures. This, however, is definitely leaking air when pushed - tracked it down by following the sound of air, although it was right in front of me the whole time. Some of the other corners look a little dubious, but nothing as clearly a problem as the above shown.

PVA seemed to be the way to go for OP, but, I believe there's a variety of different flavours of it, including water soluble and water resistant varieties for wood, as well as book binders. Advice?

(Instrument is a Black Pearl II, for reference, and has seen a little rain in its time.)
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Rees

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Re: Air leak from frame corners
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 09:25:10 PM »

Resin W woodworking glue will do it.
Remove bellows.
Gently work glue into the gap with a spatula or small brush. Not too thick as there will be some squeeze out.
Clamp the bellows corner to the frame with a clothes peg, bulldog clip, whatever.
Carefully wipe off excess glue with a damp sponge.
Leave overnight.

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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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