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Author Topic: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold  (Read 880 times)

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Grape Ape

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Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« on: May 31, 2018, 09:21:14 PM »

Found this Black and Gold Presswood on German Ebay.  Paid a bit more than I wanted to but couldn’t resist as I’ve not seen many for sale and never in this condition.  It looks almost new.  It has NO odor whatsoever- fine a very faint aroma of clean house.  Everything is intact.  The black has only slightly rubbed off on the bass cover where the hand would rub- no dings (yet) bellows are very airtight.  It will need some tuning, especially the accidentals and lower notes.  Will have to have a look inside as one of the bass buttons sounds the same as its chord.  By the sound of it, needs valves, some tuning and maybe some waxing.  Cosmetically and all else is good to go, except that someone wrote numbers in pencil by all the buttons.  I am interested to hear suggestion on how best to remove them without damaging the otherwise perfect finish.  Overall, it looks like someone bought this, played it for a month or two, and then stored it in a cool dry place until now.
The best part is that it is octave tuned, ie voces bandoneon. Never seen one of these before.  I guess the use of the word voces means that it was intended for the Italian market?
Also any idea of when this was made? I am guessing early 20s?
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BbEb Saphir, BbEb Hohner III BS, CF Ouveture V,  Dick Richards Pointe Noire (in A of all things), CF Preciosa, AD Presswood, CF Club Model II, Melodija Menges GCFBb, Preciosa BbEb, Handry GCF, Corona iiir GCF, GC Pokerwork, a plethera of vintage Melodicas, and probably a couple I forgot

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 09:56:38 PM »

How about rubbing with a wet finger to get rid of pencil?
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Greg Smith
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 10:09:59 PM »

An eraser might work, aka a pencil rubber.

SJ
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: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : Hohner Club II (De-clubbed) D/G : Hagstrom G/C: Hohner Corona IIIR G/C/F :Preciosa Bb/Eb. Hohner 384 1930's Varnished wood G/C: Hohner B/E: Hohner Erika C/F: Bb/Eb Liliput, awaiting restoration.

Grape Ape

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 10:20:24 PM »

I was thinking eraser or wet finger.  Gonna try those first.  My worry is that the pencil is very old and has somehow seeped in.  The books that seem to correspond with the numbers and that were shipped with the box certainly look very old.
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BbEb Saphir, BbEb Hohner III BS, CF Ouveture V,  Dick Richards Pointe Noire (in A of all things), CF Preciosa, AD Presswood, CF Club Model II, Melodija Menges GCFBb, Preciosa BbEb, Handry GCF, Corona iiir GCF, GC Pokerwork, a plethera of vintage Melodicas, and probably a couple I forgot

Grape Ape

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 11:00:29 PM »

Another observation: It has no bass feet upon which to rest.  Rests on the strap and air button if stored the usual way.  It doesn’t look like someone took anything off and the screws that are there look original.  The mother of pearl buttons looks better in person than in photos, but some seem a little warped?
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BbEb Saphir, BbEb Hohner III BS, CF Ouveture V,  Dick Richards Pointe Noire (in A of all things), CF Preciosa, AD Presswood, CF Club Model II, Melodija Menges GCFBb, Preciosa BbEb, Handry GCF, Corona iiir GCF, GC Pokerwork, a plethera of vintage Melodicas, and probably a couple I forgot

triskel

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 05:54:34 AM »

I fear I may have rather too much to say about this one, because I feel personally about it. :-\

I had exactly the same model (bought from an auction in East Anglia) and it was absolutely gorgeous (in its original tuning) until a well-known, Irish melodeon-playing, friend borrowed it off me after his old Hohner G, 10-key melodeon got "drowned" in a flood (in the boot of his car), and then persuaded me to sell it to him (which I did very reluctantly, and on condition that I wanted "first refusal" if he ever parted with it). So I got it back when he bought a Mélodie melodeon, but by then he'd got "my" Hohner retuned and (for me) it was then "ruined" - it had lost what I loved the most about it... :(  (Original tuning is very fragile, and it only takes one wrong stroke of a file to destroy it.)

These were made in the late 1920s, and the only listings that I have for anything like them (in fact they're a combination of features) are in a French Hohner catalogue that appears (from a printer's mark) to date from May 1927:

 

And notice how it says the ones with red colouring are 3-voice, green are 2-voice with coupled basses, and black are in very deep and powerful special octave tuning. (And it is too! :D)

If it was mine, I'd think very long and hard about the tuning - it's not going to read "zero" on an electronic tuner because it's not in equal temperament, it's something much better, and sweeter...

Edited typo
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 10:15:27 PM by triskel »
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triskel

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 06:04:34 AM »

Oh, I should have mentioned that both "Voces de Bandonéon" and "Marca Registrada" are Spanish, but that wording seems to turn up in lots of places that aren't Spanish speaking...
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Grape Ape

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 01:37:26 PM »

I was hoping you would come along Triskel!

I have no desire to mess with the original tuning- what is the suggestion for getting it into tip top playing condition without screwing that up?
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BbEb Saphir, BbEb Hohner III BS, CF Ouveture V,  Dick Richards Pointe Noire (in A of all things), CF Preciosa, AD Presswood, CF Club Model II, Melodija Menges GCFBb, Preciosa BbEb, Handry GCF, Corona iiir GCF, GC Pokerwork, a plethera of vintage Melodicas, and probably a couple I forgot

RogerT

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 07:16:07 AM »

Triskel...any idea what this 'special' tuning is?

triskel

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 04:22:54 PM »

Triskel...any idea what this 'special' tuning is?

'Fraid not Roger, and I'm very sorry that I never measured/analysed it on my own "Black and Blonde" one (it's pokerwok with varnished wood and the scorched part painted black, not "goldbrand", on these) - I just greatly enjoyed playing it, because it sounded so wonderful! But it was only going out the door on loan to Bobby at the outset, and I wasn't expecting it to eventually come home as ET! (::))

You can be sure I'll pay more attention to the next one that comes along in such stunning original tuning though, or maybe Grape Ape could measure his for us?

But my own practical tuning experience is with concertinas, and I've worked with plenty that weren't in ET. The older English-system ones were normally in 1/5 comma meantone (they're ideal for it, with both D# and Eb as well as G# and Ab, buttons that do away with what could otherwise be "wolf" notes on a fully-chromatic instrument - there's half a semitone between those sharps and flats!), whilst Jeffries Anglos were (basically) 1/4 comma meantone.

But diatonic accordions/melodeons were probably closer to the just intonation of harmonica tunings (instruments that were built in the same towns, and often by the same factories). There's a lot of discussion of harmonica tunings on the web pages of (my internet friend) the harmonica technician Pat Missin: Tuning and the Harmonica.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:09:50 PM by triskel »
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triskel

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 04:38:38 PM »

I have no desire to mess with the original tuning- what is the suggestion for getting it into tip top playing condition without screwing that up?

I'll go into that very soon, but when I have more time than I do this minute.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 05:12:25 PM »

Cosmetically and all else is good to go, except that someone wrote numbers in pencil by all the buttons.  I am interested to hear suggestion on how best to remove them without damaging the otherwise perfect finish.
You're going to think I'm bonkers until you try it! Take a slice of bread from a fresh sliced loaf (the cheaper and nastier the better), pull the crust off and discard. Squeeze the bread tightly in your hand, move it around and squeeze again until you have a doughy solid mass. Rub that on the offending marks and they will come straight off. This doesn't work with any permanent marks like ink but it's great for pencil and organic grime.
If this works really well make a note of the name of the bread and ensure that you never, ever, eat any of that bread!
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hickory-wind

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 02:08:07 PM »

Frank-
I've had 14 Black & Blonds through my shop. They are quite nice usually. A couple have been in the rare keys of FBb -a full step lower than standard GC. I've not seen one with bandoneon tuning yet but I'd love to. When you drive over to visit my shop this summer you I can record and 'map' your current tuning and give you a printout with the software I have. The 'Tuning and Repair' one day workshop I'm offering in June is full but I will probably offer it again in late July or early August.

Scott

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Henry Piper

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 02:29:16 PM »

You're going to think I'm bonkers until you try it! Take a slice of bread from a fresh sliced loaf (the cheaper and nastier the better), pull the crust off and discard. Squeeze the bread tightly in your hand, move it around and squeeze again until you have a doughy solid mass. Rub that on the offending marks and they will come straight off. This doesn't work with any permanent marks like ink but it's great for pencil and organic grime.
If this works really well make a note of the name of the bread and ensure that you never, ever, eat any of that bread!


Not Bonkers at all !! the Bread method is widely used as an effective means of removing dirt and grime from oil paintings, and as you say the nastier and more doughy it is the better it works.
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Chris Rayner

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 11:51:40 AM »

If you’ve no bread handy, or you’re gluten sensitive, this https://www.amazon.co.uk/West-Design-Kneadable-Art-Eraser/dp/B01B2N8S20 might serve.
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Andrius

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Re: Voces de Bandoneon Black and Gold
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2018, 08:18:54 AM »

I was following it on ebay.de and was waiting for more lower price (drops were about 20-30 €), so in three "circles" price dropped 61 €
My friend has exactly the same, not in so perfect condition. So congratulations with nice box.

Triskel...any idea what this 'special' tuning is?

"Bandonion tuning" only means that LM voices dry tuning.
Other - A=???, non-equal tuning, that sounds more lovely - may be the same like almost all old Hohners...
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