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Author Topic: Quieter Box  (Read 1110 times)

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Tiposx

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Quieter Box
« on: June 03, 2018, 07:34:22 PM »

Has anyone managed to modify a box to make it substantially quieter?My main box is a pokerwork and it is a bit too loud for early morning/ late evening practice, even when I play it softly.
Also are there any b/c boxes out there that are known to be on the subdued side?
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george garside

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 09:47:18 PM »

tapping the bass very lightly  and keeping the bellows no more than about 8 inches open  should enable a pokerwork  to be played using the wrist rather than the arm  for most bellows movement  should result in a pokerwork being pretty quiet. Perhaps playing mostly treble only for most or all of a tune would help.

Otherwise  some felt or thick cardboard  wedged behind both treble and bass grills  would reduce the volume. I have cardboard inside the bass grill on my lilly to dampen down the failry strident bass a bit.

george
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MarioP

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 10:17:52 PM »

The only quieter boxes I’ve come across are the oldies which came with copper reeds and probably because they were also tuned at 435 rather than 440  :|||:
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 07:01:55 AM »

I bought my Liliput for use in hotels and lodgings, and asked Microbot to set it up so it would play very softly. That worked very well, plus more convenient to carry around in my luggage of course.

Otherwise there is a Streb with headphones which does any key you want  :||:  8)
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RogerT

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 07:29:14 AM »

This doesn’t really help vis a vis your Pokerwork, but a single voice instrument can be played quietly, so in extremis you could tape off the sharp reeds on your Pokerwork and have a quieter box.

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 09:05:24 AM »

I would recommend that you have the reeds on your Pokerwork set up by a reputable reed tuner/technician, especially if there has been no such work carried out for a long time, or indeed, ever.

If the reed tip gap is too wide, the instrument will play very robustly which might be fine for playing for morris in a noisy outdoor situation, but the reeds may be a bit slow and breathy to speak at low bellows air pressure. This will make it difficult to play quietly. The state of the valves can also affect this: old curled valves can also make the reeds slow and breathy.

A properly set up Pokerwork can be surprisingly responsive and sensitive to play. Get your box checked over and any issues fixed by someone who really knows their stuff. It is money and time well spent.
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Steve
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Tiposx

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 12:23:20 PM »

I will try the cardboard baffle and taping off one reed set. The box is very far from standard but set up properly and plays nicely at low bellows pressure, but even then the sound carries further than I want it to. Perhaps it's my technique.
I like the Liliput idea for a future project. I understand that they have smaller reed plates than standard boxes - has anyone carried out a conversion to b/c?
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Theo

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 12:49:33 PM »

Felt is better than cardboard for reducing volume.  Or anything fibrous or porous, eg other textiles or foam. 
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 01:47:51 PM »

I will try the cardboard baffle and taping off one reed set. The box is very far from standard but set up properly and plays nicely at low bellows pressure, but even then the sound carries further than I want it to. Perhaps it's my technique.
I like the Liliput idea for a future project. I understand that they have smaller reed plates than standard boxes - has anyone carried out a conversion to b/c?

The trouble with taping off one set of reeds is that it can potentially mess up the tuning.

If the tuning has typical Hohner tremolo and tuned at M M+ where the M reed is nominally at pitch (although in practice nevertheless tends to be slightly sharp), taping off the M+ reeds (often very sharp!) may be OK as the overall sound of the box will be somewhat flatter than previously and may even be in tune with the LH bass/chords, which by default are usually a bit on the sharp side.

However, if the previous tuning is Viennese/'Dedic' tuning, i.e. M- M+, taping off either set of reeds will make the overall pitch noticeably sharp or flat respectively, potentially resulting in clashes with the LH end which will have probably been tuned to pitch (i.e. not sharp or flat)

Also the complete loss of tremolo resulting from taping off a set of reeds may not be the sort of effect you really want. But it's not difficult to tape off a set of reeds to see whether the result is acceptable and, more importantly, just as easy to reverse again.

Probably a felt baffle is the way to go, combined with being very conscious of your technique and bellows pressure.

(Edited to clarify a couple of points)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 01:54:02 PM by Steve_freereeder »
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Dick Rees

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2018, 02:02:25 PM »

Has anyone managed to modify a box to make it substantially quieter?My main box is a pokerwork and it is a bit too loud for early morning/ late evening practice, even when I play it softly.
Also are there any b/c boxes out there that are known to be on the subdued side?

I can play so softly that my wife can't hear it in the house.  What catches me out is that I can't stop tapping my foot.  That she CAN hear.
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triskel

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 02:34:48 PM »

Also are there any b/c boxes out there that are known to be on the subdued side?

Delicia "Popular" maybe? (The same applies for the D/G version.)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 02:45:15 PM »

Also are there any b/c boxes out there that are known to be on the subdued side?

Delicia "Popular" maybe? (The same applies for the D/G version.)

There was one on gumtree a couple of days ago. [Edit Can't find it now, though.  Sorry]

Found it. It was ebay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DELICIA-POPULAR-B-C-MELODEON-ACCORDION-GREAT-CONDITION/142818535457?hash=item2140a5e821:g:UMYAAOSwuHFbEmV1
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 02:51:58 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 03:00:28 PM »

"Subdued"??? At £360?

For a 2nd hand Delicia at that price, I think you're having a laugh Greg!
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invadm

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 04:01:57 PM »

what key is your poker work Tiposx ?  I have a CF poker work that I think is not loud enough for me,it has older zink Hohner reeds, mellow,nicer but noticeably quieter compere to newer poker work or Erica I have in the same key.     
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Stiamh

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 04:13:01 PM »

Has anyone managed to modify a box to make it substantially quieter?My main box is a pokerwork and it is a bit too loud for early morning/ late evening practice, even when I play it softly.
Also are there any b/c boxes out there that are known to be on the subdued side?

My friend Barbara Moore advertised several B/C boxes a couple of weeks ago including 2 Frontalinis that she said were not loud.

Ad here http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22291.0.html

triskel

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 05:42:38 PM »

My friend Barbara Moore advertised several B/C boxes a couple of weeks ago including 2 Frontalinis that she said were not loud.

And those Frontalini boxes are probably just the cheap post-war Italian style that the Delicia ones seem to have been modeled on...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 06:58:53 PM »

[quote aut hor=Edward Jennings link=topic=22418.msg268711#msg268711 date=1528120828]
"Subdued"??? At £360?

For a 2nd hand Delicia at that price, I think you're having a laugh Greg!
[/quote]

 ;D  Maybe theywould take an offer
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Greg Smith
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Tiposx

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 09:01:48 PM »

what key is your poker work Tiposx ?   
It is a b/c fitted with new Cagoni "Tipo a Mano" reeds, so they are keepers,

I just tried fitting a few layers of woven felt inside a spare grille and it has taken the edge off quite a bit. I have also tried this on one of my modified plastic toy melodeons which was a bit shrill with Hohner reeds in G - it definitely works well on that little beast.
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triskel

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 10:30:16 PM »

I like the Liliput idea for a future project ... - has anyone carried out a conversion to b/c?

Yes, Hohner!


Though I've never seen one, but (bearing in mind the date of the advert - August 1939) Forbes may never have received the delivery... :(
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 03:11:15 AM by triskel »
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RogerT

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Re: Quieter Box
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 08:14:43 AM »

Re taping off the M+ reeds....I did say 'in extremis'. It's quick and easy to try and if it sounds off as suggested by Steve, it is easy to remove the tape again.
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