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[Howard Jones]

OK, I'm going to take the bait...

In the "What do you wish you knew" thread Rees suggested "Use 3 not 4 fingers on the right hand".  Now Rees knows his stuff and I take what he says seriously, but I'm puzzled by this.  I was watching my playing last night and I use the little finger all the time.  It seems natural for playing octaves or arpeggios - since the scale fits neatly under 4 buttons it seems obvious to use 4 fingers.  It's natural when playing right-hand chords, or when holding down a low note with the index finger while the others play a phrase of the tune.  It's natural for big jumps up and down the keyboard.  It's useful when cross-rowing eg to get the pull G on the D row without moving your other fingers out of position on the G row.

Why wouldn't you want to use all four fingers?  What are the advantages in restricting yourself to just three?

NB I'm talking about the right hand.  I'm a three-finger man on the basses - a (possibly) bad habit I developed too long ago to change, but I don't find it limits my playing at all.

[risto]

3 fingers or 4?

No. It's 5 fingers (cba) 

[Lester]

3 fingers or 4?

No. It's 5 fingers (cba) 

Think you will find one is a thumb so still 4 fingers   

[risto]

3 fingers or 4?

No. It's 5 fingers (cba)  

Think you will find one is a thumb so still 4 fingers    

Lester, are you from The Mountains? In these parts we have 10 fingers instead of 8 fingers and 2 thumbs  

[Steve_freereeder]

In the "What do you wish you knew" thread Rees suggested "Use 3 not 4 fingers on the right hand".  Now Rees knows his stuff and I take what he says seriously, but I'm puzzled by this.....

I'm exactly of the same feeling as you, Howard.
I've also been analysing my playing and I find that I use the little finger a lot for octaves, just as you say. But the bulk of my RH finger work is done by the first 3 fingers.

I think some of the rationale behind the '3-finger' philosophy is that the little finger is the weakest of the four and so may not have the dexterity achievable with the first three. I can see the argument for this, but I think a lot of it also depends (a) on the individual and (b) on the style of music being played.

Playing with only 3 fingers instead of 4 may mean that you have to shift your hand up and down the keyboard more. At first sight this could be thought of as a disadvantage, but perversely, it might not be so and could in fact lead you to become more skilled and confident in moving around the keyboard.

Very interesting....
Going to go and play more tunes now and think about this some more.

[Andrel]

Playing with only 3 fingers instead of 4 may mean that you have to shift your hand up and down the keyboard more. At first sight this could be thought of as a disadvantage, but perversely, it might not be so and could in fact lead you to become more skilled and confident in moving around the keyboard.

Exactly, Steve. It's a question of confidence, and better intimacy with the keyboard, I feel. And I do use my little finger all the time on my one-row when I play Cajun (the octave system), but when playing fast-paced Irish or Cape Breton or Quebecois, it's the three-finger rule that applies for me, bearing in mind there are times when you do need to use the pinky. There's no going back ! And by the way, a couple of hours trying the 3-finger way of playing won't get you anywhere. It's like trying to learn a language in a week! It took me a few weeks to get used to it, and I wish I had done it from the start.

[HallelujahAl]

Lester, are you from The Mountains? In these parts we have 10 fingers instead of 8 fingers and 2 thumbs

LOL!!! No mountains in Lester's part of the world

[Howard Jones]

I think some of the rationale behind the '3-finger' philosophy is that the little finger is the weakest of the four and so may not have the dexterity achievable with the first three.

That comes with practice.  I was an Anglo concertinist before I was a melodeonist and on Anglo it's definitely an advantage to used the little fingers on both hands. I used to be able to touch-type using all the fingers, although it's a skill which seems to be deserting me!

I can understand people who don't have that dexterity getting by with 3 fingers and not finding it a limitation, but Rees was talking about unlearning a 4-finger style.

The style of music you play is of course a consideration.

Playing with only 3 fingers instead of 4 may mean that you have to shift your hand up and down the keyboard more. At first sight this could be thought of as a disadvantage, but perversely, it might not be so and could in fact lead you to become more skilled and confident in moving around the keyboard.

I don't get this.  I don't see a benefit in moving your fingers from where they need to be when you could just reach out with another finger.

[Simon]

I think some of the rationale behind the '3-finger' philosophy is that the little finger is the weakest of the four and so may not have the dexterity achievable with the first three.

Never met a pianist who doesn't use the little finger though. Actually I once was taught a couple of tunes using three fingers, but it was the index finger I didn't use. Reason was to use the index finger later on for a lower countermelody. So which three fingers are we talking about? 

[Steve_freereeder]

I don't get this.  I don't see a benefit in moving your fingers from where they need to be when you could just reach out with another finger.

I was trying to say something to the effect that it might be possible to become more proficient and accurate at moving your whole hand around the keyboard if you are partly forced to do so by using only 3 fingers rather than 4.

Usually, I too prefer to make the minimum hand movement and 'reach out with another finger'.

The main time I move my hand significantly along the keyboard is mostly when playing on a one-row melodeon when using the little finger to 'peck' the melody and then have 1st, 2nd and 3rd fingers free to put in a lower arpeggio or countermelody type of accompaniment.

I was an Anglo concertinist before I was a melodeonist and on Anglo it's definitely an advantage to used the little fingers on both hands

Me too! I definitely agree with you here.

[Howard Jones]

. So which three fingers are we talking about? 

Good point.  I'd assumed Rees was talking about first, middle and ring fingers and leaving out the little finger - to do anything else would really be perverse!

I too often use the first finger for a counter-melody, and then I really need all the other fingers to play the tune with.

[Steve C.]

And don't forget those of us with Corona-style buttons who (occasionally) use the thumb for the accidentals.

[Québécois]

Whetever works for you! I use all fingers and sometimes the thumb.

[RGF]

Coming from a piano accordion background,  it seemed to me a bit odd, at first, to use my thumb for nothing more than maintaining my hand position. But I've got past that and am now relativlely comfortable using "just" four, as it was kind of a functional reassignment. The pinky, however, has served so well for so many years, I see no practical reason to put it out to pasture at this early stage.

Bob
(who will accept all the help he can get)

[sCANdanADIAN]

There's no reason to give up on the thumb Bob.All the Slovenianians use it now as do many Italian Organetto players and at least one prominent Swedish two-rower.


I've been playing button accordion for 16 and only started using my thumb two years ago. I've found the thumb to be huge asset for three row playing and I use it all the time now.Though I do find that there are tunes or passages where I find it helpful to have my thumb on the edge.

Chris

[risto]

... Playing with only 3 fingers instead of 4 may mean that you have to shift your hand up and down the keyboard more. At first sight this could be thought of as a disadvantage, but perversely, it might not be so and could in fact lead you to become more skilled and confident in moving around the keyboard. ...

Using 4 came by nature to me as a left handed guitarist. Steve J. & co on this board suggested using only 3 after which I started to arrange fingerings so that when ever possible I use 3 + jumping. It felt comfortable but using the 4th is sometimes reasonable, no reason to exclude it totally. Some 5-row players who also play the diatonic-row boxes speak for the thumb, so there you go.

[HallelujahAl]

There's no reason to give up on the thumb Bob.All the Slovenianians use it now as do many Italian Organetto players and at least one prominent Swedish two-rower.

I use the thumb & little finger of course when playing PA so it was perfectly natural for me to translate this onto whatever other box I am playing. Just using three fingers seems so limiting. The important thing to remember, if you are using the whole hand to play with, is to have a strong wrist position. Watch good Slovenian box players and see how they arch the fingers like a pianist to get a good attack.

Having said that sometimes - when I'm feeling lazy - I just use the minimum fingers necessary to get the tune out of the box!
AL

[Howard Jones]

I've never thought seriously of using the thumb for playing.  I need the thumb to brace the instrument. I don't like having it strapped too tightly to my body in any case, and to have it fixed solidly enough not to shift around with the bellows movement would probably prevent me from breathing!

[Stiamh]

Playing with only 3 fingers instead of 4 may mean that you have to shift your hand up and down the keyboard more. At first sight this could be thought of as a disadvantage, but perversely, it might not be so and could in fact lead you to become more skilled and confident in moving around the keyboard.

I don't get this.  I don't see a benefit in moving your fingers from where they need to be when you could just reach out with another finger.

This is the benefit that I see. To me it seems quite clear that, quite apart from the issue of the little finger's strength and length, there is a stronger connection between the stronger fingers, your brain, and the rest of the body. Well my brain and body anyway. Coordinating the left and the right hand - lots of in and out for us C#/Ders - works better when you leave the little 'un out of it. Not sure that what I see as this neurological weakness could be overcome by practice, but 3 fingers works so well for me that it would be absurd for me to devote years to finding out the answer to that question.

Actually I use 2 fingers for many passages, particularly arpeggios. Here's an example:

[mikesamwild]

Just come back from our regular session and I found I was using my little finger all the time for all sorts of reasons on both sides of the melodeon/button accordion. (D/G + accidentals Saltarelle Connemara )  It's become second nature

It has been invaluable in learning Anglo Concertina too as the strength has been built up over the years on the bigger box.  Although I have a ganglion on my little finger (pinkie) on the right hand which will require microsurgery and I nearly severed the left one on a broken glass serving in our pub a few years back.