Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Tyranny  (Read 2900 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2700
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2018, 12:19:11 PM »

According to Tomás Ó Cannain, when he confronted Ó Riada about his disparaging remarks about the accordion, the latter conceded that he had overstated the case for the sake of making a point (a point about the instrument's suitability for interpreting music that had been developed on pipes and fiddles that needed to be made, I'd say). And don't forget that Ó Riada included an accordion player (Éamon de Buitléar) in one of his ensembles (Ceoltóirí Chualann).

Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example? 

Helena Handcart

  • Nine-box Nellie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1276
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2018, 12:27:41 PM »

Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example?

Yes, mostly pipe and tabor players who we mostly ignore  (:) :|||:
Logged
Sideways typing on the wooden handbag (now with added electric typewriter).

The Ewell SessionsGreen Man Sword | Taylor's Morris | Nellodeon on Soundcloud| Melodeon Playgroup |

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3284
  • Left the building...
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2018, 02:20:09 PM »

According to Tomás Ó Cannain, when he confronted Ó Riada about his disparaging remarks about the accordion, the latter conceded that he had overstated the case for the sake of making a point (a point about the instrument's suitability for interpreting music that had been developed on pipes and fiddles that needed to be made, I'd say).

Ah, I didn't know Tomás had done that, good for him! But, of course, he's a piano accordion player, as well as a piper and an academic, whilst when you look more into what Ó Riada said it was really about the practices of Irish button accordion players, with their discordant ornamention and chord playing (which was often more a rhythmic device than harmonious, with the older players ;)).

Quote
And don't forget that Ó Riada included an accordion player (Éamon de Buitléar) in one of his ensembles (Ceoltóirí Chualann).

In fact he included TWO of them, don't forget the wonderful Sonny Brogan! (Who Ó Riada wrote in praise of... )

I tried to open an email dialogue with Éamon about all this, but he never went into it and died not long after that. He was a lovely man, a renowned producer of nature programmes, and a fine calligrapher (it was a joy to receive a letter from him, his handwriting was so beautiful, and you'd almost want to frame one of his cheques instead of cashing it!) He had a strong preference for a pair of old-style narrow leather straps (without padding) on his boxes too - which I provided him with on several occasions.
Logged

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1327
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2018, 02:39:31 PM »


Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example?

Other instrument are making something of a comeback, down our way, especially for border. We have a piper and whistle players. Wreckers have at least one brass player. Isambard's Rats have a flute player. Beltane have a whistle player. The variety is increasing all the time and, of course, fiddles never really went away.

I think the driver behind this is the availability of portable personal amps. Once you start to use these you can start to balance the dynamics  Doesn't always work but when it does you get some great sound textures.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Helena Handcart

  • Nine-box Nellie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1276
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2018, 05:07:33 PM »

Other instrument are making something of a comeback, down our way, especially for border.

I don't think this has anything to do with geography and all to do with your flavour of morris - and serves merely as a reminder that there is no single English morris tradition.

For the teams I play for amplification is neither needed or wanted and we favour solo or at most two-three musicians .

Last week I stepped up to help out some borderist buddies and found myself playing alongside a mandolin, a ukelele and whistles (all amplified), a massive drum and someone banging sticks together.  Luckily I've got an Oakwood and I'm not afraid to use it so competing with the amplification was not an issue but I'd forgotten just how different the border band experience is  (:)

I guess when you consider most modern border teams the argument that the melodeon is the 'standard' instrument for morris dancing falls by the wayside?
Logged
Sideways typing on the wooden handbag (now with added electric typewriter).

The Ewell SessionsGreen Man Sword | Taylor's Morris | Nellodeon on Soundcloud| Melodeon Playgroup |

Hugh Taylor

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
    • Band web site: http://www.tumblingtom.co.uk
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2018, 05:00:35 PM »

I've heard the phrase 'tyranny of the melodeon' in the context of "playing everything in D, G, Am, or Em". Didn't Dave Sheppard use it when expressing 'concern' over people altering his tunes written in Gm to Am or even Em.
Logged
Castagnari Mory D/G, Castagnari Tommy D/G, Saltarelle C/F
Tumbling Tom Band

Jesse Smith

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Buffalo, NY, USA
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2018, 05:26:59 PM »

I've heard the phrase 'tyranny of the melodeon' in the context of "playing everything in D, G, Am, or Em". Didn't Dave Sheppard use it when expressing 'concern' over people altering his tunes written in Gm to Am or even Em.
Of course, the D/G melodeon was invented/popularized in order to play along with the most common fiddling keys, so I don't think the melodeon can take all the blame for the prevalence of D and G.
Logged
Hohner Pokerwork D/G, Hohner Pressed Wood C/F.

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3284
  • Left the building...
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2018, 07:00:03 PM »

Of course, the D/G melodeon was invented/popularized in order to play along with the most common fiddling keys, so I don't think the melodeon can take all the blame for the prevalence of D and G.

Except you couldn't buy a Hohner D/G in Britain until 1955, when Bell's got one batch of pokerwork ones, and one batch of Ericas, made.

Up until then all the boxes in use had a row in C (be they C/C#, B/C, C/F, G/C, or single-row C), and hence my comment about fiddles being forced to tune down to play with them... :(
Logged

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4635
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2018, 07:09:07 PM »

Yes, I guess bringing in D/G instruments was an improvement over the previous position, but even so, there are many fiddle tunes in A and in flat keys including the perfectly fiddle-friendly G minor and D minor, which tend to get transposed or sidelined because of D/G melodeon influence.

Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.fendragon.co.uk

Winston Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1593
  • AKA Edward Jennings
    • "Our Luxor B&B" Luxor life, slice by slice.
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2018, 07:22:54 PM »

So the D/G melodeon is actually the grey squirrel of Tradmusicland?
Logged
Although I can carry on messing with melodeons, the ongoing attention of the Ministry of Truth and the Thought Police will (no doubt) eventually teach me to really love Big Brother!

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4635
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2018, 08:22:17 PM »

Tree rats, my dad used to call them.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.fendragon.co.uk

triskel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3284
  • Left the building...
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2018, 10:20:46 PM »

So the D/G melodeon is actually the grey squirrel of Tradmusicland?

There's quite a discussion of the topic here Edward: The rise of D/G (and the fall of "English Chromatic" C/C#) since 1949

(I guess that means C/C# boxes are red squirrels then... :o)
Logged

Winston Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1593
  • AKA Edward Jennings
    • "Our Luxor B&B" Luxor life, slice by slice.
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2018, 10:36:47 PM »

"(I guess that means C/C# boxes are red squirrels then... :o)"

Especially since I've now got one to care for!
Logged
Although I can carry on messing with melodeons, the ongoing attention of the Ministry of Truth and the Thought Police will (no doubt) eventually teach me to really love Big Brother!

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1327
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2018, 10:44:47 PM »

"(I guess that means C/C# boxes are red squirrels then... :o)"

Especially since I've now got one to care for!

Careful. They bite.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

lachenal74693

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
  • Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2018, 10:30:39 PM »

Has nobody in the English tradition ever bemoaned the fact that melodeons have become the standard instrument for morris dancing, for example?

Yes, mostly pipe and tabor players who we mostly ignore  (:) :|||:

Quite by chance, one of our band, not an hour ago, produced a tabor and whistle (not a pipe)
and played 'Shepherds Hey' for a solo jig by one of t'dancers, so it still happens  - a nice finish
to the evening...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 11:05:05 PM by lachenal74693 »
Logged
Roger Hare
Urmston, Lancs., U.K.
rjhare at outlook dot com
Manchester Morris Men

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4635
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2018, 11:08:12 PM »

I have occasionally danced morris to pipe and tabor and it is wonderful music to dance to.
Definitely don't knock it until you've tried it.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.fendragon.co.uk

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1327
  • DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, old CF Hohner
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2018, 01:01:44 AM »

I have a tabour pipe. Evil thing invented by the devil to drive to you to drink.
Logged
Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Ebor_fiddler

  • Chris
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2340
  • Hohner 1040 C One-Row, Sandpiper D/G, Liliput C/F
    • Ebor Morris
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2018, 12:02:58 AM »

A few years ago, when I still fiddled for Goathland Plough Stots, we were invited to dance at an event hosted by Handsworth, and there was a Pipe and Tabor Man who played for one of the Cotswold sides. At an impromptu session at dinnertime, he not only kept up with all the "big" instruments, but led a great number of tunes. I was distinctly impressed.
Logged
I'm a Yorkie!
My other melodeon's a fiddle, but one of my Hohners has six strings! I also play a very red Hawkins Bazaar in C and a generic Klingenthaler spoon bass in F.!! My other pets (played) are gobirons - Hohner Marine Band in C, Hohner Tremolo in D and a Chinese Thingy Tremolo in G.

baz parkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1029
    • All Blacked Up
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2018, 08:24:18 AM »

I have occasionally danced morris to pipe and tabor and it is wonderful music to dance to.

Ken Watson, who many here will know from leading sessions at Whitby, plays pipe and tabor occasionally for  Grimsby Morris. It looks and sounds wonderful  :M
Logged

richard.fleming

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 208
Re: Tyranny
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2018, 08:40:04 AM »

2 points -
Why hasn't the thread drift been noted...
The other more important point I'd like to make is that while there is enough controversy about the box and it's place in ITM and in Irish culture and nationalism and as a new instrument influencing the development of ITM and about various box styles and their relationship to social class and class based tastes and so on and so on to fill a thesis, or a book... the concertina seems to have slipped in quietly and become an uncontroversial instrument although it has so much in common with the box. Any ideas why this is so?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.